Why was Malcolm Marshall so middling in ODIs?

[aussie tragic]

And obviously Alistair Cook >>>>>>> every Aussie not named Bradman.

Alister Cook not fit to tie Ian Chappells boots never mind the Aussie ATG's

 

[h_hurricane]

Simple mathematics really. 29 - 24 = 5

14 - 27 = -13

which takes me back to my earlier statement, Jadeja>Bevan>Ashwin>Warne

11>5>3>-8

 

[honestbharani]

Alister Cook not fit to tie Ian Chappells boots never mind the Aussie ATG's

Simple mathematics, really. 45-7 >>> 42-65...

 

[aussie tragic]

Simple mathematics, really. 45-7 >>> 42-65...

Yes, never mind that Chappelli averaged over 50 at #3 and was rated best Aussie #3 behind Bradman until the youngster named Ricky Ponting came along

 

[honestbharani]

who cares about that? Batting average - bowling average is the only thing that matters in tests mate.

 

[Line and Length]

Alister Cook not fit to tie Ian Chappells boots never mind the Aussie ATG's

Chappelli is one of the most over-rated cricketers ever. He had a good (not great) batting average and his captaincy is judged almost exclusively on the players he had at his disposal. Without Lille, Thompson etc where would he sit as a leader?

 

[mr_mister]

Except no one is comparing them as allrounders? Simple comprehension, really.

I started the comparison and I say we compare them as all rounders. We can compare them as pure batsmen if you'd prefer though

 

[honestbharani]

I started the comparison and I say we compare them as all rounders. We can compare them as pure batsmen if you'd prefer though

Nah.. only as pure bowlers.

 

[trundler]

Ross Taylor with an average difference of 22 was almost twice the all rounder Miller was.

 

[Red]

In NUFANs all time xi game he had to bat out of position at 5 in the Australia E XI

Don't mean to be a pedant, but Jones spent the majority of his career in tests at #5.

He spent a bit of time at #3 when Boon and Marsh were opening but when Tubby came into the team, Boon dropped to #3 and Jones down to #5, because AB was at #4.

 

[Red]

yeah. either his averages are 29/24 and he's an ATG test all-rounder or we 'adjust' his 'misleading' stats to make him a 50 averaging batsman with an ugly part time bowling average of 40+


you can't have it both ways fellas

or we acknowledge the facts, he was picked as a middle order bat primarily, who could bowl a bit of troll spin, and he only managed to average under 30 with the bat in 18 test appearances, which no one would consider a good enough return.

i'm not sure if you're serious or not here, but saying he's an atg test all rounder is ridiculous. look at his FC bowling record. he wasn't that good a bowler, just had a day out once or twice with the ball in tests. and he got a decent amount of tests and couldn't capitalize.

 

[mr_mister]

Ross Taylor with an average difference of 22 was almost twice the all rounder Miller was.

Nah you have to have a minimum wicket to match ratio of 1:1 or even 1.5:1 or else you get weird examples like this. Luckily Bevan clears them both

In fact Bevans WPM ratio is about the same as Kallis so im sorry you can't take this off him

 

[TheJediBrah]

Bevan was a 40+ average test bowler. How he managed to average under that is as much of an abnormality as how he managed to average under 40 with the bat.

@MM you can't be saying on one hand that Bevan was a better test batsman than his average suggests, then on the other hand claim that his bowling stats are legit.

 

[mr_mister]

I'm more saying we either recognise his test stats as they are and deem him a great test AR or we ignore them as an abnormality and go by his FC stats and deem him an unproven test player ala Barry Richards

Either way works for me

People who want to say he wasnt a good enough bat in tests and that we should also ignore his test bowling success are the ones wanting to have their cake and eat it too. I just want one or the other

 

[morgieb]

I'm more saying we either recognise his test stats as they are and deem him a great test AR or we ignore them as an abnormality and go by his FC stats and deem him an unproven test player ala Barry Richards

Either way works for me

People who want to say he wasnt a good enough bat in tests and that we should also ignore his test bowling success are the ones wanting to have their cake and eat it too. I just want one or the other

Difference between him and Richards is that he failed in (admittedly limited) opportunities, Richards at least succeeded.

But I do think people try to have their cake and eat it too with Richards as well. Every chance he may only become a Mark Waugh level player if South Africa don't get excluded.

 

[mr_mister]

People act like Bevan couldn't hit it off the square in tests

He was arguably the best batsmen for his country in both the 94 Pak series and 96/97 WI series against some absolute gun bowling attacks and his 275 runs @ 55 and 15 wickets @ 17 against the WI is a Man of the series performance really.

That '97 ashes flop really ruined his record.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Back to Marshall I'd probably only leave him out of their all time XI as I'd want a bits and pieces big hitter at 8 to avoid a long tail. The Windies AT XI balance is affected by the lack of a great spinner and allrounder. I'd probably go something like this:

Greenidge
Gayle
Lara
Viv
Hope (wk)
Lloyd (c)
Hooper
Dwayne Bravo/Holder/Sammy/Brathwaite etc
Holding
Ambrose
Garner

Marshall, Dujon, Roberts, Haynes, Harper, Richardson, Chanderpaul, Sarwan, Pooran, Croft all pretty unlucky.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I get what you're saying Fuller Pilch but something feels very wrong for the ATG XI of a team as historically strong as the West Indies to have a Darren Sammy or Carlos Brathwaite in it haha

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I know. I'd like to cheat and pick Sobers somewhere. Hopefully Jason Holder will kick on. Perhaps play Roger Harper at 8 for his fielding.

 

[mr_mister]

What about Sunil Narine?