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Is Dhoni greatest OdI cricketer off all-time

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
It doesn't really cancel out, because Dhoni has played SO MANY more games than Gilly, for him to still be behind is bad enough but for his dismissals per game to be 4th lowest also adds to the issue here.
Dismissals per game is a really really odd way to rate keepers, especially when you are completely relying on the bowlers to create chances(not in your control) and not much on your ability to take those chances.
Compare Kamran Akmal and Allan Knott(agreed it is in test match context and different eras) and see where it takes you.
 

cricketsavant

U19 12th Man
Dismissals per game is a really really odd way to rate keepers, especially when you are completely relying on the bowlers to create chances(not in your control) and not much on your ability to take those chances.
Compare Kamran Akmal and Allan Knott(agreed it is in test match context and different eras) and see where it takes you.
Dismissals per game is excellent way of rating a keeper and it is not just about bowlers creating chances, it is also about keepers taking them. To be honest, I am worried you don't watch cricket, if you did you would realise, for example, the last three tests where Jimmy, Woakes and Broad created many, many chances and quite a few were dropped by Buttler. If his dismissals weren't that high this series, are you going to whinge chances were not created? Utter nonsense there mate.

BUT that is not the only reason I gave for Gilly > Dhoni, Gilly has also taken more dismissals also, in fewer games and was a better batsman in better, more important games for Australia.

But my main point is, Dhoni can not be the greatest ODI player ever if he can't even be the undisputed best keeper ever. If you think a guy with less dismissals in 63 more games is the best keeper AND THE BEST ODI PLAYER EVER, fairplay to you but I'd hate to live in your world :)
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Nah your reasoning is flawed. Dismissals per match means jack when your bowlers aren't good enough to create the opportunities. Dhoni is at a minimum a better than average keeper. Many would argue he's even better than Gilly up to the stumps and I have no reason to doubt that given what I saw of them both.

The classic case of how dismissals per match means nothing is how Kamran Ahkmal had one of the highest rates of dismissals in history and he was ultimately dropped because he was a **** keeper (and frankly that might be overselling his ability).
 

a massive zebra

International Captain
Dismissals per game is excellent way of rating a keeper and it is not just about bowlers creating chances, it is also about keepers taking them. To be honest, I am worried you don't watch cricket, if you did you would realise, for example, the last three tests where Jimmy, Woakes and Broad created many, many chances and quite a few were dropped by Buttler. If his dismissals weren't that high this series, are you going to whinge chances were not created? Utter nonsense there mate.
This series is a perfect example of why dismissals per game is a poor matrix for measuring and comparing the quality of wicketkeeping. Despite the countless missed chances and very poor wicketkeeping to which you refer, Jos Buttler still achieved nine dismissals in the series. Buttler's Pakistani rival Mohammad Rizwan, whose keeping was generally rated as outstanding, took just six dismissals in the very same series. So the keeper who in your own words dropped quite a few chances, achieved a significantly better rate of dismissals per match than the man who by general consent totally outclassed him throughout the whole series.

Buttler's average of three dismissals per game in this series is higher than the career average dismissals per game of great keepers such as Alan Knott, Wasim Bari, Godfrey Evans, Syed Kirmani, Prasanna Jayawardene, Tatenda Taibu, Bert Oldfield, Don Tallon, Jack Blackham and many others. Yet it is way behind the dismissals per game of notably poor keepers such as Kamran Akmal and Geraint Jones.

Dismissals per game is largely driven by the number of chances created, which varies wildly depending on the style and quality of the bowling attack. It does not reflect the proportion of potential dismissals that the wicketkeeper has successfully executed, and is a very poor indicator of the relative standard of wicketkeepers.
 
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Burgey

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Dismissals per game is excellent way of rating a keeper and it is not just about bowlers creating chances, it is also about keepers taking them. To be honest, I am worried you don't watch cricket, if you did you would realise, for example, the last three tests where Jimmy, Woakes and Broad created many, many chances and quite a few were dropped by Buttler. If his dismissals weren't that high this series, are you going to whinge chances were not created? Utter nonsense there mate.

BUT that is not the only reason I gave for Gilly > Dhoni, Gilly has also taken more dismissals also, in fewer games and was a better batsman in better, more important games for Australia.

But my main point is, Dhoni can not be the greatest ODI player ever if he can't even be the undisputed best keeper ever. If you think a guy with less dismissals in 63 more games is the best keeper AND THE BEST ODI PLAYER EVER, fairplay to you but I'd hate to live in your world :)
This is a bad post.
 

TheJediBrah

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Dismissals per game is excellent way of rating a keeper and it is not just about bowlers creating chances, it is also about keepers taking them. To be honest, I am worried you don't watch cricket, if you did you would realise, for example, the last three tests where Jimmy, Woakes and Broad created many, many chances and quite a few were dropped by Buttler. If his dismissals weren't that high this series, are you going to whinge chances were not created? Utter nonsense there mate.

BUT that is not the only reason I gave for Gilly > Dhoni, Gilly has also taken more dismissals also, in fewer games and was a better batsman in better, more important games for Australia.

But my main point is, Dhoni can not be the greatest ODI player ever if he can't even be the undisputed best keeper ever. If you think a guy with less dismissals in 63 more games is the best keeper AND THE BEST ODI PLAYER EVER, fairplay to you but I'd hate to live in your world :)
I respect your attitude but you are so wrong about everything
 

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
Dismissals per game is excellent way of rating a keeper and it is not just about bowlers creating chances, it is also about keepers taking them. To be honest, I am worried you don't watch cricket, if you did you would realise, for example, the last three tests where Jimmy, Woakes and Broad created many, many chances and quite a few were dropped by Buttler. If his dismissals weren't that high this series, are you going to whinge chances were not created? Utter nonsense there mate.

BUT that is not the only reason I gave for Gilly > Dhoni, Gilly has also taken more dismissals also, in fewer games and was a better batsman in better, more important games for Australia.

But my main point is, Dhoni can not be the greatest ODI player ever if he can't even be the undisputed best keeper ever. If you think a guy with less dismissals in 63 more games is the best keeper AND THE BEST ODI PLAYER EVER, fairplay to you but I'd hate to live in your world :)
Confirms my suspicion about your lack of comprehension skills. When did I say Dhoni is the best keeper or the best ODI player ever lol. I was just telling you can't really rate 2 keepers based on dismissals per innings.
By the way, I have Gilchrist over Dhoni in my XI.
 

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
Dismissals per game is excellent way of rating a keeper and it is not just about bowlers creating chances, it is also about keepers taking them. To be honest, I am worried you don't watch cricket, if you did you would realise, for example, the last three tests where Jimmy, Woakes and Broad created many, many chances and quite a few were dropped by Buttler. If his dismissals weren't that high this series, are you going to whinge chances were not created? Utter nonsense there mate.

BUT that is not the only reason I gave for Gilly > Dhoni, Gilly has also taken more dismissals also, in fewer games and was a better batsman in better, more important games for Australia.

But my main point is, Dhoni can not be the greatest ODI player ever if he can't even be the undisputed best keeper ever. If you think a guy with less dismissals in 63 more games is the best keeper AND THE BEST ODI PLAYER EVER, fairplay to you but I'd hate to live in your world :)
The issue is the dismissals per match will depend on where you play. Hard bouncy wickets produce more catches to the keeper and slips, where as slow, low wickets will provide catches to gullys, silly and short fielders. Dhoni may not be the best keeper, but he is one of the top 5 ODI bats. In Sri Lankan context, there were no name keepers who took more dismissals per match than Prasanna Jayawardene, just because home games in minnow days were played on faster and greener wickets. That don't stop us rating PJ as the best keeper SL had.
 
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TheJediBrah

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seriously can we just ignore this guy? sure it's great that everyone has a common enemy but he's clearly just manufacturing pure garbage and everyone is replying to it with the same corrections multiple times. It's boring. Honestly I prefer it when we're at each other's throats.
 

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