Test All Rounders - A Statistical Look

[Line and Length]

If you type in Aubrey you get him straight away (at least here in SA). He was SA first really great cricketer. Maybe, along with Vogler and Jimmy Sinclair. I don't think I have never heard him called anything but Aubrey.

I'll change George to Aubrey on the list so others don't get as confused as we did.

 

[Flametree]

Yeah I've just always known him as Faulkner, GA....and I made a late decision to add his first name, looked it up and there he was listed as George Aubrey. I actually realised a while later but figured it was too late to edit....

Given I also missed the 1000 runs qualifier in the OP, not my finest post....

 

[Engle]

Mushtaq Mohammed played 57 Tests, scored 3,643 runs @ 39.17 and captured 79 wickets @ 29.22 (diff. 9.95)

https://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/41318.html

 

[Migara]

Sanath Jayasuriya, Batting 40.07, Bowling 34.34

EDIT: Oh, I see the WPM qualification

 

[Migara]

Mushtaq Mohammed played 57 Tests, scored 3,643 runs @ 39.17 and captured 79 wickets @ 29.22 (diff. 9.95)

https://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/41318.html

And probably has the best peak performance (peak = 1 match) where he has cored a century and captured 5 wickets against the Windies at their best.

 

[Line and Length]

Mushtaq Mohammed played 57 Tests, scored 3,643 runs @ 39.17 and captured 79 wickets @ 29.22 (diff. 9.95)

https://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/41318.html

My Mushtag .... er My error! Will include on next revision! Thanks

 

[Flametree]

Yeah Musthaq was a bit of an omission on all our parts...

Frank Woolley qualifies as well I think....

... and Warwick Armstrong

 

[Line and Length]

Yeah Musthaq was a bit of an omission on all our parts...

Frank Woolley qualifies as well I think....

... and Warwick Armstrong

Thanks Flametree. Keep 'em coming!

 

[Dan]

Been a while since I did some stats mining, so here goes.

Qualification Criteria:

• 1000 runs @ > 25.00
• 50 wickets @ < 40.00
• Wickets per match >1.00

Rank	Player	Bat Ave	Bowl Ave	WPM	BAT RATING	BWL RATING	OVERALL
1	GS Sobers (WI)	57.78	34.03	2.53	1.65	0.92	1.314
2	Imran Khan (PAK)	37.69	22.81	4.11	1.05	1.45	1.273
3	RA Jadeja (INDIA)	35.26	24.62	4.35	0.98	1.45	1.233
4	JH Kallis (ICC/SA)	55.37	32.65	1.76	1.60	0.79	1.226
5	Sir RJ Hadlee (NZ)	27.16	22.29	5.01	0.75	1.65	1.215
6	R Ashwin (INDIA)	28.10	25.43	5.14	0.78	1.59	1.198
7	GA Faulkner (SA)	40.79	26.58	3.28	1.14	1.19	1.186
8	Shakib Al Hasan (BD)	39.40	31.12	3.75	1.10	1.20	1.170
9	SM Pollock (SA)	32.31	23.11	3.90	0.90	1.40	1.168
10	KR Miller (AUS)	36.97	22.97	3.09	1.03	1.25	1.158
11	JM Gregory (AUS)	36.96	31.15	3.54	1.03	1.16	1.113
12	IT Botham (ENG)	33.54	28.40	3.75	0.93	1.25	1.107
13	CL Cairns (NZ)	33.53	29.40	3.52	0.93	1.18	1.075
14	TL Goddard (SA)	34.46	26.22	3.00	0.96	1.15	1.071
15	AW Greig (ENG)	40.43	32.20	2.43	1.13	0.93	1.050
16	FMM Worrell (WI)	49.48	38.72	1.35	1.39	0.64	1.042
17	MH Mankad (INDIA)	31.47	32.32	3.68	0.87	1.17	1.037
18	MW Tate (ENG)	25.48	26.16	3.97	0.71	1.34	1.035
19	IK Pathan (INDIA)	31.57	32.26	3.45	0.88	1.12	1.017
20	N Kapil Dev (INDIA)	31.05	29.64	3.31	0.86	1.14	1.015
21	ER Dexter (ENG)	47.89	34.93	1.06	1.35	0.63	1.014
22	MA Noble (AUS)	30.25	25.00	2.88	0.84	1.15	1.012
23	JO Holder (WI)	32.72	26.37	2.65	0.91	1.07	1.010

This really needs some form of conditions, opposition strength, or era adjustment.

 

[Dan]

Should probably explain the method

Batting Rating = Personal Average / List Average
Bowling Rating = ((List Average / Personal Average) + (Personal WPM / List WPM)) / 2
Overall = (Batting Rating + Bowling Rating) / 2

List average means the combined average of everyone else in the comparison (so excludes the player it's being calculated for).

Oh and there's a slight weighting factor on each component to ensure they're contributing to the Overall rating in the right proportion.

 

[Line and Length]

Thanks Dan.

An interesting comparison and I agree whole-heartedly with your comment:

This really needs some form of conditions, opposition strength, or era adjustment.

 

[Migara]

The issue here is the importance of the bowling average is less more linear than batting average. Batting Average of 40 and 50 is more comparable than a bowling average of 20 and 30.

 

[Dan]

The issue here is the importance of the bowling average is less more linear than batting average. Batting Average of 40 and 50 is more comparable than a bowling average of 20 and 30.

Yeah, and bowling average doesn't 'price in' (for lack of a better term) bowling workload in the way that batting average does. Like, here's Kallis' bowling average with a few different filters on it:

Overall	292 @ 32.65
<120 balls in an innings	231 @ 29.18
120+ balls in an innings	61 @ 45.78

Now obviously an increase is self-evident - longer innings, more runs, more expensive wickets. But in comparison, Hadlee's split is 18 and 23 and Sobers' is 29 and 35. It's not meant to be a criticism of Kallis but all else being equal, this suggests you'd rather be in a situation where Sobers has to shoulder a full bowling workload compared to Kallis despite the fairly comparable averages.

Also, Jadeja's raw numbers are pretty immense (though less so when taken in context). 35/24 @ 4.35wpm is comparable with the absolute greats.

 

[The Red Fox]

Hi Dan..you list doesn't include Flintoff, why is that?..

 

[Dan]

Hi Dan..you list doesn't include Flintoff, why is that?..

I only included the list where the Overall Rating came out as >1. Flintoff's was 0.958, putting him just outside that list. Here's the rest:

Rank	Player	Bat Ave	Bowl Ave	WPM	BAT RATING	BWL RATING	OVERALL
24	BA Stokes (ENG)	36.54	32.68	2.33	1.02	0.90	0.979
25	BM McMillan (SA)	39.36	33.82	1.97	1.10	0.82	0.978
26	C Kelleway (AUS)	37.42	32.36	2.00	1.04	0.84	0.963
27	A Flintoff (ENG/ICC)	31.77	32.78	2.86	0.88	1.00	0.958
28	Mushtaq Mohammad (PAK)	39.17	29.22	1.39	1.09	0.78	0.956
29	DL Vettori (ICC/NZ)	30.00	34.36	3.20	0.83	1.04	0.952
30	WW Armstrong (AUS)	38.68	33.59	1.74	1.08	0.78	0.948
31	JDP Oram (NZ)	36.32	33.05	1.82	1.01	0.80	0.924
32	W Rhodes (ENG)	30.19	26.96	2.19	0.84	0.97	0.922
33	MM Ali (ENG)	28.97	36.59	3.02	0.80	0.98	0.907
34	M Prabhakar (INDIA)	32.65	37.30	2.46	0.91	0.87	0.905
35	CR Woakes (ENG)	26.75	30.88	2.88	0.74	1.03	0.902
36	GE Gomez (WI)	30.31	27.41	2.00	0.84	0.93	0.902
37	TE Bailey (ENG)	29.74	29.21	2.16	0.83	0.92	0.891
38	FE Woolley (ENG)	36.07	33.91	1.30	1.00	0.69	0.866
39	DG Phadkar (INDIA)	32.34	36.85	2.00	0.90	0.78	0.860
40	SR Watson (AUS)	35.19	33.68	1.27	0.98	0.69	0.852
41	DJ Bravo (WI)	31.42	39.83	2.15	0.87	0.78	0.844
42	JR Reid (NZ)	33.28	33.35	1.47	0.93	0.73	0.844
43	RG Nadkarni (INDIA)	25.70	29.07	2.15	0.71	0.92	0.832
44	KD Mackay (AUS)	33.48	34.42	1.35	0.93	0.69	0.830
45	L Klusener (SA)	32.86	37.91	1.63	0.91	0.70	0.826
46	Abdul Razzaq (PAK)	28.61	36.94	2.17	0.79	0.82	0.820
47	SA Durani (INDIA)	25.04	35.42	2.59	0.69	0.91	0.817
48	G Miller (ENG)	25.80	30.98	1.76	0.72	0.82	0.781

 

[The Red Fox]

Oh..that's a shame..thank you Dan.

I am happy Chris Woakes makes your extended list..

 

[honestbharani]

Great work, Dan. If Jaddu can maintain this for another 3 years, I think he will definitely be in the conversation among the ATG allrounders.

 

[Spikey]

Unfortunately it helps batting allrounders too much

Nearly all ATG bowlers range from 20-25

Nearly all ATG batsmen range from 45-60

here's the thing though: batting all-rounders are so so so so much better than bowling all-rounders

 

[Engle]

Unfortunately it helps batting allrounders too much

Nearly all ATG bowlers range from 20-25

Nearly all ATG batsmen range from 45-60

Another way to say this :
An excellent to decent bowler averages between 20 - 35, a range of 15
An excellent to decent batsman averages between 35 - 60, a range of 25

A batsman has a much wider range to build upon. He can score tons of runs as well as remain not out to boost his average.
A bowler has a limited range as they are competing with others for 20 wickets.

This is why batting AR come out ahead of bowling AR in a combined comparison.
It's not necessarily that they're better, it's just the nature of their numbers.

 

[smash84]

Another way to say this :
An excellent to decent bowler averages between 20 - 35, a range of 15
An excellent to decent batsman averages between 35 - 60, a range of 25

A batsman has a much wider range to build upon. He can score tons of runs as well as remain not out to boost his average.
A bowler has a limited range as they are competing with others for 20 wickets.

This is why batting AR come out ahead of bowling AR in a combined comparison.
It's not necessarily that they're better, it's just the nature of their numbers.

You can argue it the other way too. If it comes down to it, then every one must bat, but not every one must bowl. So an ATG bowler who is a decent bat gives you a lot more cushion than an ATG batsman who is a decent bowler.