Current Big 4 test all rounders.

[Daemon]

Definitely vastly superior. I wouldn’t want Stokes as part of any 3 man pace attack playing tests barring BD, SL, Ireland and Afghanistan.

 

[Flem274*]

holders ****ing light years ahead of stokes, and i say this as someone who considers stokes the only english bowler worth a squirt of piss away from mother england.

 

[MrPrez]

According to the numbers, Holder's bowling is comparable to Morkel, whereas Stokes' is comparable to Kalliis.

I think that's a fair enough comparison (although Morkel and Holder are vastly different bowlers in terms of style).

 

[Neptune]

Stokes is a better all rounder than Holder. You can over analyse stats all you want, but what doesn’t come up in stats is stokes’ ability to win games for his team, to clutch victories for his team. For example his spell in South Africa with the ball and of course, the Headingley batting innings.

 

[MrPrez]

Stokes is a better all rounder than Holder. You can over analyse stats all you want, but what doesn’t come up in stats is stokes’ ability to win games for his team, to clutch victories for his team. For example his spell in South Africa with the ball and of course, the Headingley batting innings.

I'd rather have Stokes in a World Cup Final.

I'd rather have Holder for an entire career.

Holder is the better player; Stokes is the better clutch guy.

If we ignore stats and look at game winning ability in pressure situations, Boucher would probably be known as a better batsman than Kallis. But we all know that's not the case.

 

[Neptune]

I'd rather have Stokes in a World Cup Final.

I'd rather have Holder for an entire career.

Holder is the better player; Stokes is the better clutch guy.

If we ignore stats and look at game winning ability in pressure situations, Boucher would probably be known as a better batsman than Kallis. But we all know that's not the case.

Bollocks this mate sorry. I didn’t say we should just judge players on their match winning abilities, but it should play a big factor. Looking at holders test stats, his overseas batting record is ****e, but to be fair he’s only played 3 games in England, 3 games in Australia, 2 games in South Africa etc etc etc. His bowling stats overseas are strange too. He’s done brilliantly bowling in the subcontinent, but has very average stats in England, New Zealand, Australia and South Africa. Anyway Stokes’ batting is very consistent around the world, his average is very similar in most countries apart from South Africa (averages 50, helped by his 254 in Cape Town in 2016) and UAE (14.67, ****e). His bowling, however, is very inconsistent around the world. CBA going into details as I’ve already wasted enough time on this ****ing ****ting post so if you can be arsed you can look yourselves. Anyway, because of Stokes’ clutch factor and because I’m a biased c*nt, Ben stokes win. I’m right, no need to reply. Good day.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Jason Holder is currently the world's number 1 test allrounder

 

[Flem274*]

Stokes is a better all rounder than Holder. You can over analyse stats all you want, but what doesn’t come up in stats is stokes’ ability to win games for his team, to clutch victories for his team. For example his spell in South Africa with the ball and of course, the Headingley batting innings.

classic supporter of big team with big media machine argument

i too would take stokes, but it's close, and his bowling is far behind holders.

 

[ImpatientLime]

stokes fielding being overlooked here.

has a fair shout for being the best all round fielder in world cricket.

holder has become an absolute monster with the ball but yeah, 3 centuries in 40 tests is not the work of a top tier all rounder. the double was great but it was one dig. stuart broads 169 was also fantastic....

 

[ImpatientLime]

Personally rate Holder > Stokes. Reckon their weaker skills are similar, and Holder's bowling is better than Stokes' batting.

games stokes has won/impacted with ball v games holder has won/impacted with bat will be very much in stokes favour

sure holder bats down the order, but if he's that good an all round bat in that side he should be batting top 6.

 

[Adders]

Stokes is a better all rounder than Holder. You can over analyse stats all you want, but what doesn’t come up in stats is stokes’ ability to win games for his team, to clutch victories for his team. For example his spell in South Africa with the ball and of course, the Headingley batting innings.

Stokes "clutch" value is a factor for sure but it's really hard to quantify it when comparing these 2 players. I don't think you can mark Holder down as he hasn't won a WC final or an Ashes test for his country for eg.

 

[MrPrez]

games stokes has won/impacted with ball v games holder has won/impacted with bat will be very much in stokes favour

sure holder bats down the order, but if he's that good an all round bat in that side he should be batting top 6.

You could say the same about Stokes' bowling tbf. I'm not calling holder some elite batsman, just saying his batting is useful - much like Stokes bowling.

Games won/impacted is a poor metric anyway - especially considering that they are vastly different players for vastly different teams who have different requirements of them. But as I said, while Stokes does have more ability to take a match away, that isn't enough to make him the better player overall.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Being an Englishman, Stokes' sample size is huge as well.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Being an Englishman

Is he though?

 

[Neptune]

classic supporter of big team with big media machine argument

i too would take stokes, but it's close, and his bowling is far behind holders.

I’m going to ignore that first paragraph as it’s a load of bollocks. I never said it wasn’t close, but Stokes is the better player overall. First name on the team sheet for England. Thank you for your input Flem.

 

[Athlai]

Holder is better every day of the week than Stokes right now. Stokes would be lucky to even be given the opportunity to tie Holder's shoelaces instead of being where he actually belongs, which is behind the bars of his local gaol.

 

[Neptune]

Embarrassing attempt at a wind up that, christ.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Holder is better every day of the week than Stokes right now.

As a human being, 1000%

 

[Athlai]

Embarrassing attempt at a wind up that, christ.

Spot the bloke who has probably not watched Holder play a game of cricket in years.

 

[Neptune]

Spot the bloke who has probably not watched Holder play a game of cricket in years.

Tedious you fella. England vs West Indies test series last year is the last time I’ve properly watched him. He was the highest run scorer in the series, I am well aware of how good a player he is. That double century was class, very handy with the ball in that series too. However mate, Ben Stokes, in my honest opinion (no bias I promise) is the better player overall, but it’s close, very close. So that’s that, I’ll let you continue with your bloke spotting.