The great 1980s all rounders

[Victor Ian]

I kind of add credit to someone who gets away with doing anything dodgy until their career has finished. When Imran was doing it, the rule was just a measly 5 run penalty. There was no media fallout. There were no demerit points. What he did was successfully push boundries while it was still viable. Imrans value to an ATG team is that he brings an ability to alter the ball which helps his other 3 ATG bowlers.

 

[smash84]

I think it's worth watching what he exactly said about ball tampering than just going by headlines.

4:43 - 7:00

9:16 - 11:00

24:15 - 25:00

Geoff Boycott at 28:00

 

[Bolo]

I kind of add credit to someone who gets away with doing anything dodgy until their career has finished. When Imran was doing it, the rule was just a measly 5 run penalty. There was no media fallout. There were no demerit points. What he did was successfully push boundries while it was still viable. Imrans value to an ATG team is that he brings an ability to alter the ball which helps his other 3 ATG bowlers.

I've had this thought before as well. I'm not sure the degree to which it is fair to say he would get away with it- I vaguely assume a side would be playing in modern conditions for the sake of simplicity.

This type of logic leads to questioning whether bowlers from the past who weren't much use with reverse should be auto upgraded under modern conditions, because everyone can do it these days, and you are likely fielding a modern bowler. Seems a step too far though.

Anyway, at least one quality reverse bowler should definitely feature in an atg side. An atg batting lineup will damage an atg bowling lineup at times when there is no lateral movement

 

[Lillian Thomson]

A lot of us (definitely me) grew up having Kapil as a hero and role model. It is very sad to see him being a subject of ridicule all due to PFK.

I'm sure he's devastated.

 

[Burgey]

Better moustache is definitely true

Hell yeah.

 

[stephen]

My Aus ATXI:

Hayden
Trumper
Bradman
Smith
Border*
Gilchrist+
Miller
Warne
O'Reilly
Lillee
McGrath

I honestly think this side covers all the different conditions better than anything else, from spinning conditions to fast and bouncy, to road, to sticky I think this side has it all. 4 ATG bowlers, 5 ATG batsmen, the GOAT keeper and one of the best genuine all rounders in history.

About the only team that could challenge them are the ATG Windies side:

Greenidge
Haynes
Headley
Richards*
Lara
Sobers
Dujon+
Marshall
Holding
Garner
Ambrose

 

[Coronis]

Tests , as players

Hadlee > Imran > Kapil > Botham > Kallis > Pollock

ODis
Kapil > Hadlee > Pollock > Imran > Kallis > Botham

Oh my.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Kapil making two run a ball centuries against the West Indies makes him a better Test batsman than Botham? The first one he came in at 320 odd for 4 on a flat wicket in Delhi against Clarke, Phillip, Holder, Parry and Larry Gomes. The second one was a very strong attack, but he still came in at 320 odd for 5 in a match where only 27 wickets fell in five days. Good innings of course, but separating him as a batsman from Botham for that is stretching a point to say the least.

That's an interesting way to describe an innings which came when India were effectively 100-6 because of their massive first innings deficit.

 

[kyear2]

My Aus ATXI:

Hayden
Trumper
Bradman
Smith
Border*
Gilchrist+
Miller
Warne
O'Reilly
Lillee
McGrath

I honestly think this side covers all the different conditions better than anything else, from spinning conditions to fast and bouncy, to road, to sticky I think this side has it all. 4 ATG bowlers, 5 ATG batsmen, the GOAT keeper and one of the best genuine all rounders in history.

About the only team that could challenge them are the ATG Windies side:

Greenidge
Haynes
Headley
Richards*
Lara
Sobers
Dujon+
Marshall
Holding
Garner
Ambrose

Would replace Haynes with Hunter, but otherwise fine.

Thing a SA line of

Richards
Smith
Kallis
Pollock
De Villiers
Nourse
Cameron
Proctor
Steyn
Tayfield
Donald

Would give any team fits .

 

[h_hurricane]

Looks like Kapil's innings under pressure are not enough discussed.

1. His hundred in WI came against the famous quartet when there was every chance of a defeat.
2. He came to the crease and scored a hundred in the famous tied test when the deficit was way over 300.
3. His last test hundred(129) was the best he has played, scored when the team was done at 6/27. Scored against a peak Donald when the second highest score was a freaking 17 !
4. The four sixes to avoid follow on was an unprecedented act of dare devilry.
5. All those swashbuckling innings in 1982 tour of England when he was the man of the series, each of them scored over run a ball. One of them when he was dismissed very close to be the fastest hundred of all time until then.

The rare skill to score quick and big when chips were down was something which made him special just like Botham and the likes of Sehwag and Gilly decades later.

 

[thierry henry]

Where do Worrell/Weekes/Walcott rank among WI batsmen? I suppose a relative lack of matches counts against them, but Weekes and Walcott in particular have extraordinary records.

 

[jimmy101]

Where do Worrell/Weekes/Walcott rank among WI batsmen? I suppose a relative lack of matches counts against them, but Weekes and Walcott in particular have extraordinary records.

The only guys who I can think of that are definitely ahead of them in terms of batsmanship are: Headley, Sobers, Viv & Lara.

The 3 W's would probably feature on the rung below, rubbing shoulders with Hunte, Kanhai, Lloyd, Greenidge & Chanders.

 

[mr_mister]

After the big four of Headley, Sobers, Viv and Lara, I assume they make up 5th-7th in most people's minds. With Greenidge, Kanhai and Chanderpaul on their heels


Funnily enough Weekes record makes him seem a bit of a minnow basher though

 

[aussie tragic]

Funnily enough Weekes record makes him seem a bit of a minnow basher though

I never really get this reference. What are players supposed to do, fail when they play minnows?

Averages are exactly that, so failing in a particular country, or against a particular team is pretty irrelevant to me, but seems an easy way for people to discredit players who dare to be better than their favourite player (not related to referenced post).

 

[thierry henry]

On what basis are Walcott and Weekes, averaging 56-58, not seen to be as good as the others who average similar or less....or Headley whose average of 60 from a small number of matches always seems to have secured his place in the pantheon?

(I mean yeah I could do my own research but I'm a lazy ****)

 

[thierry henry]

Thing with Walcott and Weekes too is they have equally freaky records over a large number of FC games, suggesting they played consistently at that level for decades, rather than the test records being flattering

Easy era for batting?

 

[Burgey]

I’ve read arguments from those who watched them all that Worrell was the best of the three against better sides, but I can’t recall where I read it

 

[thierry henry]

hmmm. Weekes scored 11 of his 15 centuries while averaging 83 against NZ/India/Pakistan. Perfectly good opposition today but I take it not quite the same in the 50s?

 

[jimmy101]

Averages against Aus/Eng

Walcott: 49.04
Worrell: 45.26
Weekes: 43.12

Headley: 62.51
Lara: 56.84
Richards: 52.93
Sobers: 47.13

 

[TheJediBrah]

It's not like England were particularly strong during Lara's era