Sachin is to Kohli what Maradona is to Messi?

[sledger]

Agreed with the first bit. Don't know anything about the Gavaskar case.


You know that's not what I meant though. The it in that sentence referred to its usage to denote naughtiness sans any racial connotations, which it could have. I will say that people can be insensitive about racism here due to ignorance but I'm now fairly certain I'm being baited.

All I am saying is that a term that is known to be racist is commonly used in the cultures to which you refer. I find this, in and of itself, deeply problematic.

 

[Burgey]

Actually it wasn’t a final. Lol I genuinely thought it was. Was a great knock though, they were chasing a very good score for that era

 

[trundler]

All I am saying is that a term that is known to be racist is commonly used in the cultures to which you refer. I find this, in and of itself, deeply problematic.

It isn't known to be racist though because different history, different culture and all that. There are a lot of bigoted terms based around ethnic stereotypes and I certainly hold them to be as vile as racial slurs.

 

[trundler]

I'd say donkey and dog are heavier insults than monkey here. We're being a bit prescriptivist here if I can use that term very very loosely.

 

[sledger]

Indeed, but people like Gavaskar use those slurs in places other than just "over there". Sick.

 

[harsh.ag]

Yeah, Indians should give up their internal slang to cater to the western history of treating black people in a sub-human manner.

 

[harsh.ag]

Indeed, but people like Gavaskar use those slurs in places other than just "over there". Sick.

If because of ignorance, not sick. If despite knowing, sick.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah, Indians should give up their internal slang to cater to the western history of treating black people in a sub-human manner.

What a ****ing horrendous take.

Seriously chief. Hand in your ticket.

 

[harsh.ag]

What a ****ing horrendous take.

Seriously chief. Hand in your ticket.

It's not. I was talking about domestic use only. Indians don't have to change their language when they don't have the spectre of slavery hanging over them.

 

[sledger]

oh god

 

[sledger]

good thread this btw

 

[vcs]

Yep, racism is alive and well in the Indian subcontinent, mainly directed towards dark-skinned people of African origin. I understand calling people "monkeys" has less of a racial connotation in India/Pakistan vis a vis the rest of the world, but ignorance is not an excuse. And even keeping Gavaskar's usage of that term aside, casual racism towards blacks is pretty common here. I think even Imran made a dodgy comment about West Indian players in the PSL recently. It is what it is, sadly. We have plenty of other offensive/racist terms to enable our racist behaviour - e.g. chinky, kallu etc.

 

[sledger]

Yep, racism is alive and well in the Indian subcontinent, mainly directed towards dark-skinned people of African origin. I understand calling people "monkeys" has less of a racial connotation in India/Pakistan vis a vis the rest of the world, but ignorance is not an excuse. And even keeping Gavaskar's usage of that term aside, casual racism towards blacks is pretty common here. I think even Imran made a dodgy comment about West Indian players in the PSL recently. It is what it is, sadly.

i.e. sick

 

[harsh.ag]

Do either of you know the context in which Indian people direct the Hindi word for monkey at each other?

 

[sledger]

Do either of you know the context in which Indian people direct the Hindi word for monkey at each other?

This sounds like the beginning of an apologist remark. So I will let it through to the keeper.

 

[harsh.ag]

Yep, racism is alive and well in the Indian subcontinent, mainly directed towards dark-skinned people of African origin. I understand calling people "monkeys" has less of a racial connotation in India/Pakistan vis a vis the rest of the world, but ignorance is not an excuse. And even keeping Gavaskar's usage of that term aside, casual racism towards blacks is pretty common here. I think even Imran made a dodgy comment about West Indian players in the PSL recently. It is what it is, sadly. We have plenty of other offensive/racist terms to enable our racist behaviour - e.g. chinky, kallu etc.

Oh yeah, absolutely. It's a big problem. Basically the flipside of worshipping fair skin.

However, when Indian people use monkey within their circles, it is not done so in a racial context, right?

 

[vcs]

I mean, it's only recently that there's even begun to be a backlash against the ubiquitous "Fairness Cream" ads.

 

[harsh.ag]

This sounds like the beginning of an apologist remark. So I will let it through to the keeper.

Heh. It's not. And no one who uses that Hindi slang when dealing with other people in their community has anything to apologize for.

 

[vcs]

Oh yeah, absolutely. It's a big problem. Basically the flipside of worshipping fair skin.

However, when Indians use monkey with each other, it is not done so in a racial context, right?

I'm not responding to Gavaskar's specific situation in my comments in this thread, since I know nothing about the context, or the incident, or what he said, or anything actually.

Just a general take on racism in India (and apparently Pakistan as well from what little I've observed). My general take on the subject would be that ignorance and "cultural differences", are very rarely an excuse, or a very poor one.

 

[trundler]

Yep, racism is alive and well in the Indian subcontinent, mainly directed towards dark-skinned people of African origin. I understand calling people "monkeys" has less of a racial connotation in India/Pakistan vis a vis the rest of the world, but ignorance is not an excuse. And even keeping Gavaskar's usage of that term aside, casual racism towards blacks is pretty common here. I think even Imran made a dodgy comment about West Indian players in the PSL recently. It is what it is, sadly. We have plenty of other offensive/racist terms to enable our racist behaviour - e.g. chinky, kallu etc.

An accurate take. You can see this when the n word is casually thrown around in desi memes.