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Can Ashwin beat Murali's 800?

cnerd123

cnerd123

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Average is so misleading. People need to stop hiding behind stats. Ashwin bowled poorly when the game and series was still live, if he ends up taking some cheap wickets in the dead rubber it doesn't mean he had a good series.

It's infuriating because he clearly has the skills and tools to succeed overseas - he put in some good spells in unhelpful conditions in Australia and bowled really well the first test here. But somehow that all just disappears. It's kinda like Harbhajan now, who would just bowl rubbish darts test to test, but then every now and then would flight the ball and take a five-fer and look like a world beater. I wish I knew what is going on - is it just a psychological thing, or is it a rhythm/fitness thing, or were/are they being instructed to bowl that way.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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Ashwin did bowl brilliantly in the first test tbf. Poor in this one but that doesn't mean his series as a whole was trash. Just disappointing in thus test.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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He's actually done the opposite of what I expected. He bowled wonderfully in the first game on a pitch where there wasn't really that much help, and looked absolutely toothless on a track which was basically an Indian pitch. Disappointing in a way I didn't expect. Weird series from him tstl.
 
weldone

weldone

Hall of Fame Member
***** said:
Average is so misleading. People need to stop hiding behind stats. Ashwin bowled poorly when the game and series was still live, if he ends up taking some cheap wickets in the dead rubber it doesn't mean he had a good series.

It's infuriating because he clearly has the skills and tools to succeed overseas - he put in some good spells in unhelpful conditions in Australia and bowled really well the first test here. But somehow that all just disappears. It's kinda like Harbhajan now, who would just bowl rubbish darts test to test, but then every now and then would flight the ball and take a five-fer and look like a world beater. I wish I knew what is going on - is it just a psychological thing, or is it a rhythm/fitness thing, or were/are they being instructed to bowl that way.
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We should stop judging a bowler (especially spinner) by one innings just like we don't judge a batsman by one innings. Yes, he had an off-day in the 4th test 2nd innings but look at Joe Root who had a terrible series so far. Shall we say Root is a terrible batsman?
Never judge a bowler by one innings - and that's why averages are important. If India knew spinners are going to be so important they shouldn't have selected just one spinner in the team along with a gazillion pacers. A pacer also often has off-days on green pitches and he's saved by other pace bowlers in the team. But whenever a lone spin bowler fails in helpful conditions we bring out our knives.

I agree with your point about dead rubber though. Sadly any great performance in that match shouldn't count for much - be it a double century by a batsman or a 10-fer by a bowler.
 
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cnerd123

cnerd123

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Yea I don't think Ashwin is a bad bowler at all - just that this series hasn't been a great one for him. He bowled well in the first Test but has gone missing since then. He's been called upon to score runs too and has thrown away his wicket too often -that reverse sweep was a shocker. If he bags a bunch of wickets in the final Test and brings his series average down below 30 it would still not qualify as a 'good' series for him. It's a disappointing one, and sometimes the stats don't reveal that.
 
weldone

weldone

Hall of Fame Member
marc71178 said:
Not sure of the relevance but it must be pointed out that Anderson has more series wins in India then Ashwin in England and that Anderson played a critical role in that series win.
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Cricket is a team game shocker

If it was not, 11 Ashwins would win all the test matches in the world against 11 Andersons.
 
vcs

vcs

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Yeah stats are a funny thing. Yasir Shah averaged 40 with the ball on his last tour to England, but his impact was infinitely more than Ashwin's.
 
StephenZA

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
weldone said:
We should stop judging a bowler (especially spinner) by one innings just like we don't judge a batsman by one innings. Yes, he had an off-day in the 4th test 2nd innings but look at Joe Root who had a terrible series so far. Shall we say Root is a terrible batsman?
Never judge a bowler by one innings - and that's why averages are important. If India knew spinners are going to be so important they shouldn't have selected just one spinner in the team along with a gazillion pacers. A pacer also often has off-days on green pitches and he's saved by other pace bowlers in the team. But whenever a lone spin bowler fails in helpful conditions we bring out our knives.
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I think this is less about one innings and the consistent fact that when overseas, even in helpful conditions when other spinners are doing well Ashwin still fails to make an impact. And you mention he has an avg of 32 in Eng but he has an avg 54 in Aus and 46 in SA, and was recently thoroughly outbowled by Maharaj in SA. For a man who is sometimes claimed as best spinner in world, that is a poor performance. I love Ashwin but he does seem to consistently go missing against top opposition overseas.
 
Bahseph

Bahseph

State Captain
StephenZA you know how big of a Keshav fan I am but I don't think he really outbowled Ashwin in SA. I do agree that Ashwin has been a let down,but I also believe that there was no way India was getting more out of Jadeja or Kuldeep.
 
OverratedSanity

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Haha yeah that was the only part of his post I disagreed with. Maharaj only took one wicket in that series I think.
 
SeamUp

SeamUp

International Coach
Bahseph said:
StephenZA you know how big of a Keshav fan I am but I don't think he really outbowled Ashwin in SA. I do agree that Ashwin has been a let down,but I also believe that there was no way India was getting more out of Jadeja or Kuldeep.
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Tbf to Kesh he didn't get the chance to be because he wasn't needed.

But Kesh has bowled outstandingly well in Australia, England, New Zealand which is what we looking deeper into for Ashwin for all his test success.

Kesh defo put Lyon to shame though in SA.
 
SeamUp

SeamUp

International Coach
Ashwin on his performance -

"The plan was to surprise the opposition. When no one expected me to take wickets, I took wickets. When everyone expected me to take wickets, I didn't because I'm unpredictable."
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