Would Jimmy Anderson make Australia's full strength side?

[Athlai]

Depends. Which version of Jimmy Anderson. Which Indian team. Does he get rotated out when conditions suit him or not? Current Jimmy Anderson wouldn't if the discussion is present day and you have to play him in all conditions. The current Indian bowlers are all good enough on green tracks as seen in the first match against SA and are better in India too as seen in the 2016 series. A 2011-12 Anderson over an old Zaheer/Ishant then - yes. Over a career - yes.

Na, Anderson > all Indian quicks ever tbh

 

[cnerd123]

If Jimmy was Indian he would have made his debut young and raw, be full of hype, spray it everywhere, get injured, get dropped, make his comeback too soon, get smacked around in Ranji on flat pitches, get randomly recalled for a one off Test and get smoked bowling 120k pies, and then quit cricket for a career in reality TV and C-grade Bollywood films

The wheel is forever.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Depends. Which version of Jimmy Anderson. Which Indian team. Does he get rotated out when conditions suit him or not? Current Jimmy Anderson wouldn't if the discussion is present day and you have to play him in all conditions. The current Indian bowlers are all good enough on green tracks as seen in the first match against SA and are better in India too as seen in the 2016 series. A 2011-12 Anderson over an old Zaheer/Ishant then - yes. Over a career - yes.

You're smoking crack if you think any of the current Indian quicks are even in the same league as Anderson, in any conditions, let alone better

 

[Motorwada]

Na, Anderson > all Indian quicks ever tbh

For now over a career I guess.

 

[Motorwada]

You're smoking crack if you think any of the current Indian quicks are even in the same league as Anderson, in any conditions, let alone better

What are the parameters you are judging by? Current form? Conditions? Lifetime form?

If you are taking current form Anderson averaged 50 in the 2016 series. Shami averaged 26. Shami is averaging 24.91 over the last two years and that too playing on flat conditions. Bhuvi averages 18.20 (although playing on conditions that favor him).

Thing is due to past history this current batch is severely underrated but this is prolly the best pace lineup ever by India and will all prolly average late 20s. Now people may say - oh we've seen it before etc etc but not really. Past hypes like Sreesanth and Ishant etc showed "promise" but never had the numbers. Shami averages 30.29. Bhuvi averages 26.45. None of those hypes ever got to that number ever but just showed "promise". Even Ishant took just one wicket in that Perth spell. If this was one of the older Indian bowling lineups SA would have got 300-400 on that wicket as been seen before in earlier overseas tours where we were bundled out for a low score and then the opposition scored tons of runs as the bowlers just couldn't use the conditions.

 

[Furball]

If Jimmy was Indian he would have made his debut young and raw, be full of hype, spray it everywhere, get injured, get dropped, make his comeback too soon, get smacked around in Ranji on flat pitches, get randomly recalled for a one off Test and get smoked bowling 120k pies, and then quit cricket for a career in reality TV and C-grade Bollywood films

The wheel is forever.

You've described Anderson's career from 2003-07.

 

[Gob]

Definitely not in India.

No. In discussions like these the answer will almost always be no as sides play 50% of their matches in home conditions and some in away conditions that are similar so greater than 50% matches are played in similar conditions. Since teams already have players who have been groomed since a young age to succeed in these conditions the only way these players can be replaced by players from a different country with different conditions is if those players are ATGs.

Interesting comments. If anything this somewhat justifies this thread that if India fans think Jimmy and Broady (England's greatest wicket takers ever) don't make the current Indian side its fair for Aust fans to think that those guys may not make in to their side in 'certain' conditions given Aust fast bowlers are far superior to their Indian counter parts.

 

[Motorwada]

Interesting comments. If anything this somewhat justifies this thread that if India fans think Jimmy and Broady (England's greatest wicket takers ever) don't make the current Indian side its fair for Aust fans to think that those guys may not make in to their side in 'certain' conditions given Aust fast bowlers are far superior to their Indian counter parts.

This is a true in the sense that Australia play more than 50% of their matches in Australia and hence their bowlers are far more equipped for it (also they grew up bowling in these conditions and are a better fit for them so it is circular logic). In a same way Australia might prefer Lyon over Ashwin cause Lyon's style fits Australian pitches more (where they play more than 50% of their matches). Although the original thread was made more as a taunt rather than for any serious discussion.

 

[Gob]

Definitely not in India.

This is a true in the sense that Australia play more than 50% of their matches in Australia and hence their bowlers are far more equipped for it (also they grew up bowling in these conditions and are a better fit for them so it is circular logic). In a same way Australia might prefer Lyon over Ashwin cause Lyon's style fits Australian pitches more (where they play more than 50% of their matches). Although the original thread was made more as a taunt rather than for any serious discussion.

Can't imagine stephen ever doing something as malicious

 

[Motorwada]

Can't imagine stephen ever doing something as malicious

Then I apologize.

 

[Daemon]

Interesting comments. If anything this somewhat justifies this thread that if India fans think Jimmy and Broady (England's greatest wicket takers ever) don't make the current Indian side its fair for Aust fans to think that those guys may not make in to their side in 'certain' conditions given Aust fast bowlers are far superior to their Indian counter parts.

Interesting comments. If anything this somewhat justifies this thread that if India fans think Jimmy and Broady (England's greatest wicket takers ever) don't make the current Indian side its fair for Aust fans to think that those guys may not make in to their side in 'certain' conditions given Aust fast bowlers are far superior to their Indian counter parts.

I was only referring to present day Broad. Jimmy would stroll into the team. Bhuvi Shami and two spinners at home is probably enough. Broad makes it as the third seamer.

Overseas obviously they are first picks.

 

[GuyFromLancs]

The question is pretty complex and deserving of more than a straight comparison between Anderson and the current Aussie Pace Mob.

A better question would be, would such a bowler come out of Australia in the first place, and if he did, would he end up playing in English county cricket (and eventually for England) anyway?

 

[Kirkut]

Glenn McGrath would not make it to Pakistan XI in the 90s. Pakistani selectors and management just don't rate medium pacers who can't reverse the old ball and who relies on movement off the seam. The natural length of Pakistani fast bowlers is a much fuller length than McGrath's natural length and they rely on movement in the air to get the batsman out bowled or lbw. McGrath relies mostly on caught behind or slips. Pakistan don't have slips nor does the ball carry off edges. There is low bounce, no movement off the pitch, no pace off the track. You have to generate it with your action. As far as output is concerned, McGrath averaged 30 in Pakistan, where Wasim and Waqar were averaging 21-22.

The only time Pakistan picked medium pacers were under a foreign coach - Asif/Woolmer and Abbas/Arthur.

And knowing how the domestic sides picked their teams too, even Abbotabad XI would probably not pick him as they are obsessed with raw pace.


Despite the C9 coverage of cricket, it is actually an international sport played in various parts of the world so it evolves in various different ways. Different cultures/environments and conditions develop different set of skills and athletes as a product of those conditions. Wasim perfected reverse swing because that was bowled/lbw was the best way to be successful in Pakistan. McGrath developed his natural length and movement off the seam because getting people caught behind was the most effective way of getting them out in Australia.

I have literally not seen any other fan base on this forum ask questions like "Would Ponting make it to Indian middle order of Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman" just to put down Ponting. There is only fan base that repeatedly asks these question based on the assumption that Australian conditions are at the epi-centre of cricket and skill set suited in Australia are superior to all other skill sets in the world.

Very good post, this has answered my question why Pakistani bowlers have inswing/off cutter as their stock ball. Whenever I watched Pakistan play in Australia I always thought the reason why their bowlers struggled because nobody knew how to bowl good outswingers to right handed batsmen, and your post perfectly explains that.

 

[Kirkut]

Nope I would have to go for Starc there, his bowling on the last Sri Lanka tour was absolutely top notch

Starc was awesome in SL, but I'd still go with Anderson because when reverse swing is on offer he hides the ball before delivering it, a skill which will make you very successful in Asian conditions. After Wasim and Waqar I only know Zak and Anderson applying this art.

 

[Gob]

Starc was awesome in SL, but I'd still go with Anderson because when reverse swing is on offer he hides the ball before delivering it, a skill which will make you very successful in Asian conditions. After Wasim and Waqar I only know Zak and Anderson applying this art.

Almost all bowlers hide the ball when running in if its reversing

As for the best exponent of reverse swing since the Pakistan guys, its Steyn by a distance. Don't know why he doesn't get a mention on that regard all that often perhaps because people get drooling over his conventional out swinger but give a man a reversing ball and he will run through any line up.

 

[Burgey]

Glenn McGrath would not make it to Pakistan XI in the 90s. Pakistani selectors and management just don't rate medium pacers who can't reverse the old ball and who relies on movement off the seam. The natural length of Pakistani fast bowlers is a much fuller length than McGrath's natural length and they rely on movement in the air to get the batsman out bowled or lbw. McGrath relies mostly on caught behind or slips. Pakistan don't have slips nor does the ball carry off edges. There is low bounce, no movement off the pitch, no pace off the track. You have to generate it with your action. As far as output is concerned, McGrath averaged 30 in Pakistan, where Wasim and Waqar were averaging 21-22.

The only time Pakistan picked medium pacers were under a foreign coach - Asif/Woolmer and Abbas/Arthur.

And knowing how the domestic sides picked their teams too, even Abbotabad XI would probably not pick him as they are obsessed with raw pace.


Despite the C9 coverage of cricket, it is actually an international sport played in various parts of the world so it evolves in various different ways. Different cultures/environments and conditions develop different set of skills and athletes as a product of those conditions. Wasim perfected reverse swing because that was bowled/lbw was the best way to be successful in Pakistan. McGrath developed his natural length and movement off the seam because getting people caught behind was the most effective way of getting them out in Australia.

I have literally not seen any other fan base on this forum ask questions like "Would Ponting make it to Indian middle order of Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman" just to put down Ponting. There is only fan base that repeatedly asks these question based on the assumption that Australian conditions are at the epi-centre of cricket and skill set suited in Australia are superior to all other skill sets in the world.

Except this thread is a derivative of the “Would Stuart Broad make India’s full strength side?” thread from a few years back.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Starc was awesome in SL, but I'd still go with Anderson because when reverse swing is on offer he hides the ball before delivering it, a skill which will make you very successful in Asian conditions. After Wasim and Waqar I only know Zak and Anderson applying this art.

Not disagreeing with you, but ftr Starc did exactly that IIRC

 

[Kirkut]

Almost all bowlers hide the ball when running in if its reversing

As for the best exponent of reverse swing since the Pakistan guys, its Steyn by a distance. Don't know why he doesn't get a mention on that regard all that often perhaps because people get drooling over his conventional out swinger but give a man a reversing ball and he will run through any line up.

Yes, not denying Steyn is the best at reversing it since the 2 W's, but he never hid the shiny side of the ball before delivering it. I'm not saying that skill would make you a world beater but it certainly gives you an advantage.

Not disagreeing with you, but ftr Starc did exactly that IIRC

Nah, never seen Starc hiding the shine of the ball, not denying that he's good at reversing it though.

 

[Spark]

i've definitely seen Starc do it, it's almost a standard thing i think

 

[TheJediBrah]

Nah, never seen Starc hiding the shine of the ball, not denying that he's good at reversing it though.

I don't really know how to respond to this. You do realise things happen in the universe even if you, personally. don't see them, or remember them, right?