• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Is MS Dhoni an ATG OdI batsmen?

honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
To me it is even more stupid that you rate anyone as a T20 player just based on T20Is which are basically random throwaway games apart from WT20s and the 2016 Asia Cup. The context is totally lost. I can basically do an innings by innings list and show how he is still a good T20 player even considering his T20I record but its really not worth the time or effort.
 
Daemon

Daemon

Request Your Custom Title Now!
TheJediBrah said:
For me it's the use of "one 50 in ten years" as supposed evidence that he's not a good player. Just guessing here but he's probably got a bunch of 40s and 30s batting at no. 5 and 6, where you don't make that many 50s in T20s in general.

It reminds of Lehmann saying Maxwell wasn't a good chance for the Test team because he hadn't made a first-class century yet in the year, completely ignoring that Maxwell had barely played a First-class game in that time because he was always in Australia's T20 and ODI teams
Click to expand...
Fair enough, that's probably not the best way of looking at things.

You've been bringing up his average a lot though but I tend to find that especially as a finisher, just looking at averages in T20s isn't very useful.

Only 10/66 of his innings are 30+. That seems odd for a guy who averages 36. Exactly half of them are not outs which undoubtably boosts his average. However it does show that often he just doesn't have enough time left to be making bigger scores, which then brings you back to why he has so few 30+ scores.

It's just too hard to read into. You need to have watched most if not all of his T20 career and remember all of it to judge him properly or go through his innings one by one. I don't think the usual stats do a whole lot here, besides SR.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Daemon said:
Fair enough, that's probably not the best way of looking at things.

You've been bringing up his average a lot though but I tend to find that especially as a finisher, just looking at averages in T20s isn't very useful.

Only 10/66 of his innings are 30+. That seems odd for a guy who averages 36. Exactly half of them are not outs which undoubtably boosts his average. However it does show that often he just doesn't have enough time left to be making bigger scores, which then brings you back to why he has so few 30+ scores.

It's just too hard to read into. You need to have watched most if not all of his T20 career and remember all of it to judge him properly or go through his innings one by one. I don't think the usual stats do a whole lot here, besides SR.
Click to expand...

T20 is a lot more than just T20I.. Its a common problem to certain people, I guess. :p

Sometimes the location says it all. :)
 
TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
honestbharani said:
To me it is even more stupid that you rate anyone as a T20 player just based on T20Is which are basically random throwaway games apart from WT20s and the 2016 Asia Cup. The context is totally lost. I can basically do an innings by innings list and show how he is still a good T20 player even considering his T20I record but its really not worth the time or effort.
Click to expand...
Yeah you really shouldn't judge players or teams on T20Is . . .

For example if a certain side happened to have a low T20I ranking that would be meaningless



right?
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
TheJediBrah said:
Yeah you really shouldn't judge players or teams on T20Is . . .

For example if a certain side happened to have a low T20I ranking that would be meaningless



right?
Click to expand...

Lol. I never held Oz's T20I record against them. Its CA's choice to take this format this lightly.. But its not an excuse when they cant do well in WT20s. :)
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I honestly can remember atleast 3-4 times where Dhoni's batting cost us the match in t20is, or at least played a big part in it. And on the other hand, I just can't remember a single one where he played a genuinely brilliant winning hand. Maybe someone can refresh my memory here...
 
TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Daemon said:
What's this got to do with my post?

TJB brought up his T20I average a few times which was what I was responding to.
Click to expand...
Average is still very important, along with SR. Too many people underrate it's relevance in T20s IMO.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

Request Your Custom Title Now!
TheJediBrah said:
Average is still very important, along with SR. Too many people underrate it's relevance in T20s IMO.
Click to expand...
Average is fine for a top order bat. For anyone below 4,its useless. It's still fine as a metric in ODIs because the innings is still very long, but for a 20 over game it just doesn't make any sense.
 
TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
OverratedSanity said:
Average is fine for a top order bat. For anyone below 4,its useless. It's still fine as a metric in ODIs because the innings is still very long, but for a 20 over game it just doesn't make any sense.
Click to expand...
Strongly disagree. Still a very useful metric to judge a player's performance on.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Do you admit then that despite Dhoni being a good T20 batsman in terms of ability, he has relatively underperformed in t20is. He simply hasn't played the sort of innings for India that hes played for csk for whatever reason. I don't think this is arguable.
 
vic_orthdox

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
If you can judge Chris Rogers red ball career, why can't you judge MS Dhoni's T20 international career?

In both cases in spite of far more matches in the domestic version, their stats fare slightly worse in international arena, which would suggest more depth and more competitiveness, with a decent sample size that would in general make sense when you look at their domestic stats.
 
Last edited:
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Come on Vic.. you know better than that. The point is T20Is are often used as throwaway random games where teams experiment all the time, outside of the WT20 and as I said, that one Asia Cup. There is no way you can conclusively state anything just because they happen few and far between and are hardly ever taken as seriously as the other formats of the game on tours. The bad thing for MSD is that the one year when T20Is were taken as a big deal (2016) he was in perhaps the worst form of his international career. And that seems to somehow cloud some folks' judgement. As I said, there is no way you can take T20I record as an indicator of a players' abilities and standing in T20 cricket, you just cannot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Top