***Official*** South Africa in New Zealand 2017

[Neil Young]

Tough debut for Phillips, hope it doesn't set him back too much.

I wouldn't have thought so. It's not like he was traumatised out there. He faced a few quick straight deliveries and then was a bit unfortunate to get out the way he did. I thought he looked ok in what was a tough first match for him.

 

[_Ed_]

From my perspective (admittedly a long way away up in the stands) he looked incredibly nervous. Kane walked down to talk to him after every ball, and whenever Kane was doing something like tapping the pitch with his bat, Phillips watched and then carefully mimicked it.

It also didn't help that the crowd sarcastically cheered when he eventually got off the mark. A 20-year-old debutant. Gotta love NZ cricket crowds.

 

[Chewie]

I took it more as a yay you got your first international run / you didn't get a duck on debut cheer

 

[Bijed]

We need a method to counter Tahir. Play him like an offspinner, maybe.

Regarding countering Tahir and 'playing him like an off-spinner'.

That just won't work. He has a superb googly and bowls it often, so I can kinda understand you thinking to play him like an offie, but he does have the ripping legspinner in his locker too, which will do for you then.

The way to counter Tahir is to be able to pick the googly from the hand, and possibly the flight. If you can't do that, you have no chance.

Well, theoretically, if you are playing for a ball turning into you and that ball then turns away from you, you are going to miss it by some distance, and that ball should miss off stump. Especially if that ball is a ripping leg spinner. Theoretically anyway.

But I am sure international batsmen have tried to come up with way to counter him and have obviously not found one yet as he is the best short form bowler in the world!

Assuming you play for the googly and it does turn away, whilst you might miss it and hence not get out, it's still a dot ball, so adopting that strategy just to survive Tahir probably isn't going to end up that well in T20s. More feasible in ODIs, though. Also, if he just bowls a straight one you're in danger of edging it. Trying to learn how to pick him is probably going to work better, though as you say his record suggests that finding a way to counter him is far, far easier said than done.

Mind you, he's nearly 38 now, so it might be the case that he's not on the international scene for much longer.

 

[vandem]

I took it more as a yay you got your first international run / you didn't get a duck on debut cheer

... with a hint of "why are you here and Ross Taylor isn't?"

 

[TheBrand]

Pretty awful display with the bat. Ronchi has to go surely. I almost reckon just keep Phillips in there and give him the gloves. BMac has a similar start to his ODI career and my theory that the younger you start playing international cricket the better you will be could come true.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

anyone trying to analyse the innings of a 20 year old on international debut is an idiot. of course he's going to be ****ing ****ting himself.

 

[Immenso]

I took it more as a yay you got your first international run / you didn't get a duck on debut cheer

So did I. Didn't come accross as sarcastic to me.

 

[_Ed_]

So did I. Didn't come accross as sarcastic to me.

Maybe I misjudged it, apologies if so. A few near me gave him a standing ovation, which seemed not so genuine.

 

[_Ed_]

anyone trying to analyse the innings of a 20 year old on international debut is an idiot. of course he's going to be ****ing ****ting himself.

Yeah of course, totally understandable.

I was just wondering what the experience will do for him. IMO, in hindsight, it was too soon. West Indies tour next summer may have been a smoother introduction.

 

[CapeTown Guy]

I reckon Tahir will be around until after the next 50 over World Cup, unless he has a dramatic fall from grace.

 

[StephenZA]

I reckon Tahir will be around until after the next 50 over World Cup, unless he has a dramatic fall from grace.

With his enthusiasm I can see him playing for the next 2 WC....

 

[Moss]

Well that was an absolute pasting but not surprising as SA are the one side to have dished it out to NZ on their own turf in the last few years. Big props to Tahir for showing the value of a good spinner even on these grounds.

Hesson has the tendency to get too cute with his selections, this was a pretty big example of the same. Was okay with the Phillips selection, if they feel he's good enough then it's all about how they manage him from here. But you don't stack the batting with hit-or-miss sloggers from 3-7 and then insist there's "no room for Taylor in the side". It's not like there are no other options either - given Elliott has still not retired from T20 internationals I'd have him in the mix, Neesham 's batting has come on much better than Anderson's of late, and Worker was probably unlucky not to be there as well.

 

[hendrix]

I would like to see Tim Southee's place in question in all formats please.

 

[hendrix]

Hesson looking pretty ****ing stupid for leaving Ross out

Not really.
- Taylor has always been terrible at international t20s
- it's random, meaningless t20s, why not select some debutants
- other guys have done well domestically in t20s and are more deserving of selection.

He's gun in tests and ODIs. He's **** in t20s. It's just reality.

 

[SeamUp]

Wayne Parnell must start packing his bags.

 

[StephenZA]

I would like to see Tim Southee's place in question in all formats please.

Genuine question... have NZ got a genuine better bowler than Southee available.

Wayne Parnell must start packing his bags.

He is an excellent FC player... just cannot make the step up to international level convincingly. Needs to go now, to give somebody else a chance to settle.

Phelukwanyo has ? over his position, but has done his job well overall as a wicket to wicket stock bowler, but that is only useful if he bats. He never gets in. I would like to see him at 7/8 along with Morris to see what he can do; we know he hits a long ball. Otherwise, Ngini, Olivier, Philander, Pretorius are just be better options, these can replace Parnell as well.

 

[Mike5181]

Genuine question... have NZ got a genuine better bowler than Southee available.

He definitely shouldn't be bulletproof in limited overs cricket, particularly T20s. We've just had too many injuries. Sodhi and Milne are genuinely better bowlers than him in T20s, and McClenaghan as well performance-wise.

ODIs are a bit more debatable, I guess. If Henry wasn't a shell of his former self, then I'd probably drop him because Boult/Henry/Milne/Santner/Anderson would be my preferred ODI attack. But this is in the fictional/Don Bradman cricket world where everyone is available to be picked, which is never the case.

Dropping him in test cricket would be a bit of a stretch, though.

 

[SeamUp]

He is an excellent FC player... just cannot make the step up to international level convincingly. Needs to go now, to give somebody else a chance to settle.

Phelukwanyo has ? over his position, but has done his job well overall as a wicket to wicket stock bowler, but that is only useful if he bats. He never gets in. I would like to see him at 7/8 along with Morris to see what he can do; we know he hits a long ball. Otherwise, Ngini, Olivier, Philander, Pretorius are just be better options, these can replace Parnell as well.

Phehlukwayo still has a long way to go but at least he knows more-or-less where he is bowling and tries to bowl to his field.

Parnell shouldn't be in the test squad coming up. Morris/Olivier should be competing for third spot.

It depends how Morne Morkel looks after 3/4 games but I still can't see them pushing him.

 

[StephenZA]

It depends how Morne Morkel looks after 3/4 games but I still can't see them pushing him.

He did not look over aggressive or fast, hopefully that is just him easing in and not a long term issue from his injury.