Victor Ian
International Coach
Can you (anyone) give me one example of Ricky Ponting managing men well. I thought he had the respect of the whole team purely by way of being a great player.
-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
The Great Captains
- Thread starter listento_me
- Start date
Burgey
Request Your Custom Title Now!
I think he managed a dressing room of pretty big egos really well. Hayden, Martyn, Warne, McGrath - these guys were big names. Then when they went he oversaw the transition of new blokes into the team.
A lot of the stuff about man management is pretty hard to know unless you're in or around the team. But you just hear blokes would walk under a bus for him, even though he wasn't regarded by all and sundry as the most astute on-field tactician. It's an interesting juxtaposition to Clarke, who I think is widely regarded as tactically very sound, but headed a dressing room which was, if not divided, then never far away from some sort of internal dust up.
A lot of the stuff about man management is pretty hard to know unless you're in or around the team. But you just hear blokes would walk under a bus for him, even though he wasn't regarded by all and sundry as the most astute on-field tactician. It's an interesting juxtaposition to Clarke, who I think is widely regarded as tactically very sound, but headed a dressing room which was, if not divided, then never far away from some sort of internal dust up.
vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
Even when his results as a player and a captain were sagging, the entire squad (bar his successor) still would do anything for him.
All the issues that guys had with him (eg Hauritz) tended to stem from his on field decisions. The guy is as beloved and respected as anyone in Australian cricket since Border - maybe Gilchrist.
Victor Ian
International Coach
This, 'would do anything for him' thing....what,... you mean they would got out and bat for him, bowl for him, catch a cricket ball for him? I've heard this expressed many times about sports captains, and it is kind of weird. Players would NOT walk under a bus for their captains and they can only do on a cricket field what they would do anyway. Does it just mean they will do what the captain asks without grumbling and fussing?
TheJediBrah
Request Your Custom Title Now!
You're taking it too literally
Saying they "would do anything for him/walk under a bus" etc is just a way of saying that they might dig a bit deeper in tough situations, and perform better in general knowing they have a captain they can rely on or whatever. You simply can't exaggerate how important these kind of psychological factors are and how much they can effect on-field performance.
Victor Ian
International Coach
I'm not trying to discuss the literal meaning, more the feel of the expression. In short, man management basically falls to "do your ----ing job!" and having the players fall in line.
All I can do is repeat this piece of gold.
All I can do is repeat this piece of gold.
Last edited:
Furball
Evil Scotsman
Shane Watson.
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
Absolutely. Look at Watto's raw stats under his different captains. Ponting knew how to get the best out of him (defined role and made him feel important). Man management is a lot to do with psychology
listento_me
U19 Captain
Imran Khan
“…Imran was turning Pakistan into the greatest and most joyous cricket team in the world. In 1992, as an England fan, I was shattered by our defeat at the hands of Pakistan in the World Cup final. As someone who loved cricket and all the splendid things it stands for, I had no choice but to celebrate.”
Peter Oborne
There are few sporting figures who so define a decade, that to not mention them when speaking of that time period would come across as sacrilegious. Imran Khan was that figure for the 1980s. A dashing all-rounder in the era of dashing all-rounders. His bowling, probably his strongest suitm was as fiery and as good as any pure fast bowler in cricketing history and his batting, oft overlooked, was full of flair and an underrated eye for detail. He knew when an innings of belligerence was needed and when his innings needed to be more sedate. However, it is as captain of Pakistan that most turbulent of cricketing nations – till the west Indian implosion of recent times – that he will forever be remembered.
Khan would captain Pakistan in 8 of the 10 test series that they went unbeaten in, from 1985 to 1990, winning 5 of them including a first series win in England, beating arch rivals India, conflicting damage on the Australians and going toe-to-toe with the greatest cricket team of them all. It says something of Pakistan as a team and Khan as their captain, for them to be the only ones to withstand the West Indian onslaught. The only ones. But this is too small a reason for Khan being one of the truly indispensable captains of world cricket. His greatness lies elsewhere.
Imran Khan as captain was both a diplomat and surrogate father. He was instrumental to the young careers of Wasim Akram, Inzamam Ul-Haq and Waqar Younis, not to mention lesser names such Rameez Raza. They still hold him dear to their hearts and use him as counsel. As a diplomat, he had united a divided locker room, even if he had partly caused that division with Javed Miandad, yet the two would become the best of allies on the field and engineer some of Pakistan’s greatest wins. On top of all that, he tamed an indecisive, demonstrative board and pushed the players he wanted and got them.
In my opinion, one of Khan’s greatest achievements and most important to cricket as a whole was the re-introduction of spin bowling as an attacking option. He picked Abdul Qadir and persisted with him. Spinners were no longer a way to shore up an end or redundant, as the West Indies had shown for so long. In a decade where the fast bowlers were kings, Khan showed there could be a different weapon, if one was willing, brave and skilled enough. Qadir, under Khan’s captaincy and trust, carved a career as one of the finest attacking bowlers of all time. It was tactical genius, the type rarely seen.
To top off the most wondrous of careers and stints as captain, he would lead Pakistan, a faltering ODI side at the time with no Waqar Younis, a young Inzamam and a fading Miandad and Khan himself, who was quite literally on his last legs. They had one great trump card and that was Wasim Akram. He was imperious throughout the tournament and Khan used him as a missile. “Bowl fast, don’t worry about no balls” was the advice. Yet Pakistan still suffered and were fortunate to progress the way they did but once they had done, Khan revealed one last trick: his ability to inspire. Cornered tigers indeed.
In terms of legacy, Khan’s is second only to the two names that will supersede him in this list. He managed to leave behind a group of players, in particular Akram, Younis and Inzamam who would go onto define their respective trades for the next decade and both an ODI and test set up which was intensely successful throughout the 1990s. The knockout stage of each of the world cups that followed and in the 27 tests series they played throughout the decade, they won or draw 20. That is a remarkable feat, all built on the backbone that Khan designed. A definitive master of his own generation and of the next.
Captained Tests 48 ODIs 139
Won 14 75
Lost 8 59
Draw/Tie 26 1
Won 14 75
Lost 8 59
Draw/Tie 26 1
smash84
The Tiger King
Pretty much this. When Imran was injured or if he was not available
listento_me
U19 Captain
Miandad captained in tests too, beat England and Sri Lanka I think it was.
2 of the 10 unbeaten tests were actually captained by Miandad.
listento_me
U19 Captain
You can make a separate list of Aussie only captains if it satisfies you
listento_me
U19 Captain
Btw, I want to have a little say on the whole Ponting argument that has sprung up on here. Was he a great captain? Certainly. Was he Australia's greatest? ... Well I don't think so, although a year ago I would probably have said yes. This is simply because Ponting's ability to beat better sides was severely affected when he lost McGrath and Warne and it was during his time that issues with Clarke and Watson arose in the dressing room and he never truly managed to quell those problems.
As you've probably guessed, Ponting won't be on this list but if it was a top 10, then he would get in.
As you've probably guessed, Ponting won't be on this list but if it was a top 10, then he would get in.
ImpatientLime
International Regular
fella, you could have a think tank of brearly, jardine, khan and lloyd in charge of a team that just lost mcgrath and warne and they'd still struggle massively to re-create the same dominance.
its such a weird criticism of ponting.
its such a weird criticism of ponting.