***Official**** Sri Lanka in New Zealand 2014/2015

[hendrix]

Yeah watching him bowl is pure ***, it's why we're pushing so hard for his inclusion. It's not as if Wagner has underperformed.

There is the proviso of fitness and the fact that he'd need to adjust to being a first change bowler.

 

[NasserFan207]

Yeah, last thing you'd want would be to turn him into Steven Finn.

 

[Maximas]

Yeah, because if you bothered to notice how Wagner was bowling, he was generating those chances. Remember, Mathews is an excellent batsman and was looking untroubled compared to the carnage about him. To write it off as 'oh he just slogged because of the tail' would discount any effort spent setting him up. Any subtle change in delivery, via angle or seam position, makes a big hit for 6 turn into a skied chance.

It's the kind of thing Wagner often does better than Southee and Boult too IMO, you don't need three bowlers capable of bowling ***y deliveries when you have Southee and Boult around as the new ball pair, in fact it works better when you have a guy like Wagner around to provide some variety and pose a different kind of threat to the batsman, something that transcends conditions a little as well

 

[NZTailender]

It's the kind of thing Wagner often does better than Southee and Boult too IMO, you don't need three bowlers capable of bowling ***y deliveries when you have Southee and Boult around as the new ball pair, in fact it works better when you have a guy like Wagner around to provide some variety and pose a different kind of threat to the batsman, something that transcends conditions a little as well

Yes! That's exactly it, and if SoBo aren't getting the job done I don't think Bracewell, who is more like them, will offer anything different either.

 

[NZTailender]

Also, what exactly will Bracewell bring about? Quicker wickets? Then he'd be faster than Southee and Bowler at doing so. Better econ rate? His career ER is almost the same as Wagner's. In fact, Wagner has a better FC ER as well.

 

[hendrix]

It's the kind of thing Wagner often does better than Southee and Boult too IMO, you don't need three bowlers capable of bowling ***y deliveries when you have Southee and Boult around as the new ball pair, in fact it works better when you have a guy like Wagner around to provide some variety and pose a different kind of threat to the batsman, something that transcends conditions a little as well

If there's any bowler who transcends conditions, it's Southee. Definitely not Wagner. Remember, Wagner didn't even play in the UAE nor the two flattest pitches in the Windies.

And while I'm all for crediting unconventional wicket-taking ability, a huge, overwhelming factor in Wagner's wickets has been licorice all sort bowling that batsmen have got out to because of the work of Southee and Boult. It's the same for many of Sodhi's wickets. Yes, there have been good balls in there (the bouncer to Dhawan) and good execution of plans (all the catches at short cover), but to say that the non-***iness of his wickets is something S&B are incapable of is rubbish.

 

[NasserFan207]

Also, what exactly will Bracewell bring about? Quicker wickets? Then he'd be faster than Southee and Bowler at doing so. Better econ rate? His career ER is almost the same as Wagner's. In fact, Wagner has a better FC ER as well.

Well, in the last test he'd just keep the pressure on and provide a better threat than Wagner when coming on first change. Same as any first change seamer.

 

[Maximas]

the point wasn't that Wagner is a better all conditions bowler than Southee, nor was it that Southee and Boult can't take wickets they way Wagner does, it's just that they don't, and I'm not sure Bracewell would be quite as good at it as Wagner is, when you have a world class opening pair able to run through sides and build pressure isn't the ideal third seamer the guy who can most effectively benefit from their good work?

 

[hendrix]

Also, what exactly will Bracewell bring about? Quicker wickets? Then he'd be faster than Southee and Bowler at doing so. Better econ rate? His career ER is almost the same as Wagner's. In fact, Wagner has a better FC ER as well.

Jimmy Neesham took wickets in this test. So did the SL pace attack. There was movement I the air and off the deck when the ball was 60 overs old.

Wagner was not finding any movement while S&B were.

Bracewell and Henry are better at swinging the ball than Wagner.

 

[Hurricane]

Can't wait for the Basin. Hope Herath plays - I think he alone will make this match more competitive.
Also interested to see the results of the SL players training against two piece balls!

Interestingly McMillan said that the blackcaps frequently have nets against new balls to make training as difficult as possible and so that we are not taken by surprise against swing.

I guess an issue regarding selection issues and whether to play 4 front line seamers, an extra all rounder, or dropping Wagner is the bandwidth of the selectors - I imagine much of their attention is on the world cup 15 at the minute so it is possible they may make conservative and fast decisions on the test team.

 

[_Ed_]

On the back of their amazing form, do you guys think the team might be in line for some rare recognition at the Halbergs? McCullum for Sportsman of the Year, maybe? Maybe even Hesson for coach?

Team might be a tough category to win, with the Kiwis doing so well this year and the All Blacks remaining up on their pedestal.

 

[hendrix]

the point wasn't that Wagner is a better all conditions bowler than Southee, nor was it that Southee and Boult can't take wickets they way Wagner does, it's just that they don't, and I'm not sure Bracewell would be quite as good at it as Wagner is, when you have a world class opening pair able to run through sides and build pressure isn't the ideal third seamer the guy who can most effectively benefit from their good work?

That is a good point, but I think a bowler that continues to exploit swinging and seaming conditions in NZ is more likely to produce long term results than a bowler who tales wickets with sucker balls.

 

[Maximas]

Wagner at his best has shown that capacity though right? If his form continues to be mediocre and he doesn't get any zip or movement I'd start looking at other options though

 

[NZTailender]

Wagner at his best has shown that capacity though right? If his form continues to be mediocre and he doesn't get any zip or movement I'd start looking at other options though

This, really. It's not like he's averaging 66.62 in his last 5 tests and should be dropped on being ineffective.

If Bracewell were to be picked and did perform well here and then go on to be Southee MKII, I'd taste it. But I'm skeptical as to whether he'd do anything other than pull off a Hobart then go about bowling rubbish again.

 

[Hurricane]

On the back of their amazing form, do you guys think the team might be in line for some rare recognition at the Halbergs? McCullum for Sportsman of the Year, maybe? Maybe even Hesson for coach?

Team might be a tough category to win, with the Kiwis doing so well this year and the All Blacks remaining up on their pedestal.

Blackcaps deserve team of the year over the ABs. Otherwise you would just give to rugby every year.
Don't know about the Kiwis maybe although Australia were missing Thurston and others.

I would give it to the blackcaps personally as the lads played like a team. The reason why we win is that we have so many people pulling their weight. I read today in the paper that we have gone 6 series in a row without defeat. Even the 1980s team only strung together 4 series in a row unbeaten. This is now IMHO the second best blackcaps side ever with the 1980s crew still leading the way. To overtake them we would need to win series away in Australia and England. I am not even going to bother listing SA in that list as we might as well fly to the moon first.

 

[hendrix]

Wagner at his best has shown that capacity though right?

Not really, no. In all his time as an international bowler he's never really been someone who swung or seamed the ball: His seam position has always been suspect.

Like Johnson he gets the odd one to swing of course but Johnson as you know has other weapons.

 

[Maximas]

I've definately seen Wagner take the ball into right handers, has to be bowling with good rhythm or something though I gather, haven't really spotted it since England tbf

 

[hendrix]

I've definately seen Wagner take the ball into right handers, has to be bowling with good rhythm or something though I gather, haven't really spotted it since England tbf

As I said, he occasionally gets swing - and if you're ever going to swing it, the Duke in early season England is the time, but over two years of international televised footage I'm inclined to say it's not an issue of rhythm. He's just not really a guy who gets much movement and takes his wickets in other ways.

 

[Maximas]

Yeah would agree with that, his predominant method of movement appears to be that bit of slide/cut that takes the ball away from right handers from what I can see

 

[NZTailender]

fmd there's more to fast bowling than seam or swing movement. Are all you batsmen or something?