**Official** South Africa in New Zealand

[hendrix]

Well in this scenario Ryder would be. Even Anderson/Neesham's spot would be in doubt. Damn that's a strong team.

 

[Dan]

No matter how much he might add, you can't go in with NcCullum at 7 with the 2 all-rounders in the top 6. It's 2 batsmen short.

I'd love to see them run with this XI:

01. Ryder
02. Latham
03. Williamson
04. Taylor
05. Watling +
06. McCullum
07. Neesham
08. Vettori
09. Southee
10. Henry
11. Boult

Not practical, given Ronchi isn't going anywhere and the bowling attack is same-y, but yeah.

 

[BeeGee]

It's the game of the no-rounder and I love it.

ODIs in a nutshell.

 

[Athlai]

Meant that as a unit, ftr.

Faf's fractionally below KW in my estimations, but ABdV and Amla take that core batting unit to the next level. Faf, and to a lesser extent de Kock, just underpin that as very, very solid contributers. IMO there is no better top 4 in ODI cricket -- as a complete unit -- than Amla/de Kock/Faf/ABdV.



I don't disagree with you here, but again, as a unit I think SA comes out on top. I flat-out don't rate Mills that much, Boult is still a WIP in ODI cricket, and MitchM has random games where he leaks 8 an over too often for my liking.

The gulf isn't huge, no. But even with your rating of the SA bowlers, they come out a better unit IMO. Not by that much, tbf.



Ten years ago (or even 5 years ago), I'd agree with you completely. But now we've had things like Faulkner's finish in Brisbane and insane ABdV and Kohli knocks where they single-handedly win games in pretty quick time which tempers that somewhat.

Even still, it's not like South Africa are completely reliant upon ABdV h4x or an angry Steyn spell to win ODIs. They do the collaborative effort thing too.

I don't think they well-and-truly outclass New Zealand, but I think they're a stronger unit who should be considered favourites.

I mean look at the Ireland game today. Ryder ripped the Irish to pieces, and yet at the end of the game Ireland still came within 3 wickets of winning. ODIs are just that awkward length where a collabarative effort can always threaten victory. Obviously when a single player has a brilliant performance it's incredibly difficult to come back but in this form of the game it's more likely than any other.

The argument here isn't that NZ is a worse unit than SA, that is a given. They have better players. The argument is that South Africa isn't "too strong" for us to win. Their strength puts us at a disadvantage but I'd say it's close 60-40 than 80-20. If NZ win, it won't be a fluke.

 

[Blocky]

No matter how much he might add, you can't go in with NcCullum at 7 with the 2 all-rounders in the top 6. It's 2 batsmen short.

I'd love to see them run with this XI:

01. Ryder
02. Latham
03. Williamson
04. Taylor
05. Watling +
06. McCullum
07. Neesham
08. Vettori
09. Southee
10. Henry
11. Boult

Not practical, given Ronchi isn't going anywhere and the bowling attack is same-y, but yeah.

I'd have Watling in the side on the basis that either Williamson or Taylor were injured, he's absolutely our next best strike turner in the side... but I think with those two in it, and the depth that we can put out on the park in terms of sheer hitting, Ronchi is the better option.

 

[straw man]

I don't agree with the NcCullum selection tbh. I think we're better off picking an extra batsman

Latham
Ryder
Williamson
Taylor
McCullum
Anderson (5)
Watling/Ronchi
Neesham (6)
Vettori (4)
Southee (1)
Henry (3)
Boult (2)

I was wondering why this side looked like it had all bases covered and then realised it's because you've picked 12 players

I've thrown around some of the permutations in my head and come to the conclusion that I really want the Neesham opening experiment to work. Would like one attacking opener to partner Guptill/Latham and we need the bowling - it's difficult to fit he and another allrounder (Anderson) in the side without Neesham opening and in that case I'd be tempted to leave one of those two out completely for a batsman.

We could see Ryder as a like-for-like all-round replacement for Neesham though at this point I'd rather put faith in Neesham. Frankly I still have reservations, even leaving aside off-field issues, whether Jesse is really up to much as an international batsman; it's one thing to bully Ireland and domestic bowlers but another to have the mental application to score runs against quality attacks. He didn't do much against India in his last ODI series.

Other thoughts:
- Ronchi is a good number 7, N. McCullum is not.
- that means four pure bowlers and as I rate our fast bowlers highly I'd almost always have three of those as seamers with only one spinner. Currently my top three ODI fast bowlers are Mills, Southee and McClenaghan. Boult, Bennett and Henry are options.
- Vettori's bowling will be good but he'll be a total liability with bat and in the field, which makes him vs N.McCullum fairly even.
- Answer a couple of these questions and our XI will look very good by the time the World Cup arrives.

 

[Zinzan]

Morning fellas. Good toss to win. Like the look of this bowling attack, although would really would have liked to see Henry.

 

[hendrix]

Yeah there was no point in playing NcCullum.

I get the feeling McCleneghan might take some tap if he's not really on song.

 

[Zinzan]

Terrible first over from Boult. Of all our ODI bowlers, Boult still looks the most clueless if the ball isn't swinging.

 

[hendrix]

Ronchi's batting has been good lately but his keeping really doesn't inspire confidence. Strange because his footwork often looks exceptional, he just has moments of inconsistency.

 

[kingkallis]

Oh Dan!!!

 

[kingkallis]

And now Guptill misses a run out...wow! South Africans have enjoyed some good luck this morning.

 

[Athlai]

How quick is McClenenenn bowling?

 

[Athlai]

Yesss

 

[Zinzan]

How quick is McClenenenn bowling?

137-140ish from what I've seen

 

[straw man]

Liked this on cricinfo

Dan: "Every time I walk past the supermarket chiller they have six-packs of pies on sale. I mention this because they each remind me of a James Franklin over. Franklin is not the answer as a bowling top-order batsman."

A good match for the Georgie Pie Super Smash though

 

[Athlai]

Liked this on cricinfo

I want to poke that person in the eye.

 

[Mike5181]

I could go for a pie actually. steak and cheese or potato top? life's tough decisions.

 

[straw man]

Bah potato top. More pastry please

 

[Athlai]

I wish you could turn off the user comments on cricinfo. I don't want to read FTP/Battrick jokes in the game report FFS.