***Official*** India in New Zealand 2013/14

[Flem274*]

It's not really all that inconsistent. If New Zealand had spinners as good as Fulton, Rutherford, Latham and Papps are as batsmen then I doubt you'd pine for Jeets. Guptill's probably about as good a batsman as Patel is a bowler, maybe even a little better, but New Zealand's spin stocks are horrid enough for that to be the best option, while your opening stocks aren't.

lets not get carried away here

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Look, every single time he bats, he's mentally ****ed - he can't rotate strike, relies on boundaries and misqueues that go into gaps.

Yeah, cause batsmen who are mentally ****ed can pull out an innings like that when the rest of his side falls over to the best pace bowling attack in the country.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being boundary reliant in test cricket, and as soon as fielders go back or the slips the strike rotation problem disappears. He's proving that he's learning how to build an innings.

 

[hendrix]

Yeah, cause batsmen who are mentally ****ed can pull out an innings like that when the rest of his side falls over to the best pace bowling attack in the country.

tbh, Doug Bracewell going at 4.4rpo on a road sounds like the exact type of pressure-releasing bowler Guptill needs. I suppose those bowlers exist in Test cricket too (Ishant Sharma, Imran Tahir, the whole WIndian attack that played in Dunedin...).

It's possible - hell, even probable - that he'd do as well as Peter Fulton if he sorted out his head game...but there are a) better options (Latham) and b) guys that haven't been tried with similar records who might do better (Raval) and c) the host of late-career guys whose records suggest recall just as much as Guptill (thinking Flynn, Papps).

 

[Blocky]

Actually, they can. They can when the pressure is low for the bulk of it, they can when someone else is taking care of scoring rate and they can when they have the natural gifts Guptill has.

 

[Athlai]

So we're thinking

Guptill
Fulton/Rutherford
Williamson
Taylor
McCullum
Anderson
Watling (+)
Southee
Wagner
Patel
Boult

 

[Flem274*]

a) better option*
b) no there aren't
c) no they don't

 

[hendrix]

It's not really all that inconsistent. If New Zealand had spinners as good as Fulton, Rutherford, Latham and Papps are as batsmen then I doubt you'd pine for Jeets. Guptill's probably about as good a batsman as Patel is a bowler, maybe even a little better, but New Zealand's spin stocks are horrid enough for that to be the best option, while your opening stocks aren't.

TBH I was only trying to temper the discussion a bit so that I don't sound like Blocky.

 

[Bahnz]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being boundary reliant in test cricket, and as soon as fielders go back or the slips the strike rotation problem disappears. He's proving that he's learning how to build an innings.

Tell that to Abdul Razzaq.

 

[Bahnz]

Very good chance that Taylor won't be available for the 1st test in which case Ryder will come in.

 

[Flem274*]

at least if he's gone for the first test it's at eden park where the pitch might be flat enough to cover for losing our best batsman

 

[hendrix]

a) better option*
b) no there aren't
c) no they don't

a) Watch Guptill bat, then watch Latham bat. Then look at where and how Latham has scored his runs, and against what attacks. And then temper in the number of runs he's scored at 21. The age thing is not important except to say that his development has only relatively recently got to the point where he's now a phenomenal batsman; and even then he's amassed mountains of runs.

I know I'm a fan boy but we don't need for Latham to have played Test cricket and to average over 29 (!) for me to say he's a better option.

b) Raval's record is very equivalent to Guptill's. Similar first class average playing for the same team.

c) Guptill's 4 good games this season don't cancel out Flynn's ridiculous form when he was dropped from the Test team and decided to become an opener, or Papps' consistent domination for a couple of seasons despite a technical modification.

 

[Flem274*]

Wasn't disagreeing on Latham's good case for selection, but I don't think there are more than one of him, hence the better option*.

I'm Raval's biggest backer on the forum, but as good as he began, Guptill has blown him out of the water this season and they bat for the same team in the same situations.

Flynn had ridiculous form? I must have missed something. He's been very up and down since being dropped.

Papps has had one good season. Last years stats are massively inflated by declaration hundreds - look at who bowled to him in the double. Also, afaic if you're going to hold Guptill's current technique against him then you can draw a line through Michael Papps.

 

[Bahnz]

God how awkward will it be for McHesson if we get a top order scorecard like this at Eden Park

Rutherford 40
Fulton 60
KW 50
Ryder 120
McCullum 0
Anderson 70

 

[Flem274*]

God how awkward will it be for McHesson if we get a top order scorecard like this at Eden Park

Rutherford 40
Fulton 60
KW 50
Ryder 120
McCullum 0
Anderson 70

Not as awkward as

Rutherford - 80
Fulton - 100+
KW - 50
Ryder - 100+
McCullum - 0
Anderson - 50+

 

[hendrix]

Papps has had one good season. Last years stats are massively inflated by declaration hundreds - look at who bowled to him in the double. Also, afaic if you're going to hold Guptill's current technique against him then you can draw a line through Michael Papps.

That's kinda my point exactly. If you're drawing a line through Papps then draw a line through Guptill. Or don't.

Guptill has had an excellent start to the season. Which is what, 4 games?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Not as awkward as

Rutherford - 80
Fulton - 100+
KW - 50
Ryder - 100+
McCullum - 0
Anderson - 50+

For it to be awkward, you'd also want Watling to get a big score - otherwise BMac's back might be okay for keeping!

 

[hendrix]

For it to be awkward, you'd also want Watling to get a big score - otherwise BMac's back might be okay for keeping!

At this point it is assumed that Watling will get a score.

 

[Bahnz]

That's kinda my point exactly. If you're drawing a line through Papps then draw a line through Guptill. Or don't.

Guptill has had an excellent start to the season. Which is what, 4 games?

I fully expect Guptill to keep up the domination though. The thing is, he's spent so long playing against international bowlers now that your average plunket shield stalwart represents no challenge to him. He can happily hover on the front foot and wait for the odd 125k half volley or leg side long hop to help him along. The problem is that bowlers of that quality are non-existent in test cricket (excepting Bangladesh and Zimbabwe). So Guptill is stuck in an awkward no-man's land. Way too good for the Plunket Shield, and proven epic fail at test cricket. I would advise him to try and do what KW has and get a spot in a 1st division county side. However, seeing as he's already turned down IPL squillions once before, I'm somewhat doubtful that he'd even consider it (especially as he's no longer a baby by international cricketing standards).

 

[hendrix]

didn't he already play county cricket? TBH I'd imagine that there are just as many county trundlers/stalwart batsmen in county cricket as there are in NZ domestic cricket.

 

[Bahnz]

didn't he already play county cricket? TBH I'd imagine that there are just as many county trundlers/stalwart batsmen in county cricket as there are in NZ domestic cricket.

He played second division county cricket, and it had an initially positive impact on his performances in test cricket. Well worth a second go at a higher level imo. But even if he could get a contract with one of the 1st division sides, I suspect the IPL $ will win out, and I really can't blame him tbh.