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ICC considers a Relegation and Promotion system for Test Cricket

Binkley

U19 Captain
Terrible idea, for the reason James outlined. There are not nearly enough teams to justify this, and if New Zealand only played matches against West Indies, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh the popularity of the game here would on the vine. It would only benefit the powerful nations, and would do so at the expense of the weak. Horrible, horrible, horrible.
 

Flem274*

123/5
West Indies and NZ would just give up. Then in the top tier Sri Lanka and Pakistan will cop serious questions once the former two die off since they are the new minnows of the newly minted big six unless they can reverse their form fast. Test cricket will basically become Australia, England, India and South Africa with Afghanistan and the ever enthusiastic Bangladesh being the new whipping boys everyone moans about playing.

There will always be cricket in NZ but the standard would plummet if they were relegated because it would just be a case of cbf for young kids coming through and they'll turn to other sports.
 

ohnoitsyou

International Regular
West Indies and NZ would just give up. Then in the top tier Sri Lanka and Pakistan will cop serious questions once the former two die off since they are the new minnows of the newly minted big six unless they can reverse their form fast. Test cricket will basically become Australia, England, India and South Africa with Afghanistan and the ever enthusiastic Bangladesh being the new whipping boys everyone moans about playing.

There will always be cricket in NZ but the standard would plummet if they were relegated because it would just be a case of cbf for young kids coming through and they'll turn to other sports.
not if promotions/relegations happen every 2 or even 4 years. But yeah, India and South Africa would still do absurdly well out of it.
 

NasserFan207

International Vice-Captain
Horrible idea and would reduce the interest in cricket in a lot of countries IMO.

Based on the current rankings, we may see a first division of South Africa, India, Australia, England, Pakistan, Sri Lanka then and a second division of West Indies, New Zealand, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh and say two of Ireland/Netherlands/Afghanistan.

As a New Zealand fan, if those are the only teams we play, there isn't going to be a lot of interest and the advertising dollar to NZC would reduce.

Ultimately it all depends on the structure of it and I may be way off base here, but it seems like we'd miss out on touring England, India touring NZ, etc and that would be a real shame.
If promotion/relegation was a regular thing, ie: every 2 years, it wouldn't be too bad for your NZs or WIs surely?
 
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Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
If this goes ahead I'd like it to be a bit like NZ rugby's provincial ITM Cup (structure-wise)

The ITM Cup consists of 14 teams which are divided into 2 divisions: the premiership (top 7 teams) and championship (bottom 7 teams). There is promotion-relegation between the two divisions, but more importantly THERE ARE CROSSOVER MATCHES between the divisions. The teams play the other teams in their division (6 games plus 4 crossover matches with the other division). Sometimes these cross-over matches are determined by rankings; other times they are chosen.

from https://www.allblacks.com/news/24016/2014-ITM-Cup-cross-over-matches-confirmed

1) The Automatic crossover matches already determined by the 2013 finishing order (host province listed first) are:


The three other crossover games (per team) have been picked by the provinces as follows:

2) 1st round of picks: Championship teams picked a Premiership team, in reverse seeding order (eg, 14th to 8th), for a home Championship match:


3) 2nd round of picks: Premiership teams picked a Championship team, in seeding order (eg 1st to 7th), for a home Premiership match:


4) Final round of picks: Championship teams picked a Premiership team, in seeding order (eg. 8th to 14th), for an away Championship match (note the second team hosts the match):


Hypothetically you could do the same thing with 12 cricket test teams (add Ireland and Afghanistan?) in two groups of 6 over a 30 month period. Sides must play the other 5 teams in their group and then 3 crossover games with the other division. That way they play 8 other teams that period. At the end of that period the top and bottom 2 from each group move up/down. This would still allow minor teams to make sure bigger teams toured by picking them to come to play. Sure, the smaller teams might lose to the big teams by 200+ runs/an innings/10 wickets etc but that happened in the Ashes anyway.
 

Flem274*

123/5
New Zealand rely on money from the Indian and English tours to make a decent profit iirc, rather than just scraping by. If a couple of extra years (or more) are added to the lengths between those tours then it will hit NZC hard. I suspect many other boards have the same issue.

I also think this system cheapens test cricket. Part of the point of test cricket is each country has test status because the quality of their cricketers meets a certain standard and test cricket is meant to show how good players adapt to different conditions. What makes the great teams so admirable is they can go from Australia to South Africa to Sri Lanka and New Zealand and succeed. The new system basically says to be number one you have to get into the top tier (or be fortunate enough to and beat whoever is in it but if you suck at playing in a certain country who doesn't happen to be top tier then that's ok.

I just wish the ICC would have the integrity to say what they really want to happen; Australia, England, India and South Africa to be the only test nations because they pull the crowds and make the money regardless of how good their side is. Fair enough if so, because the ICC can run their game however they like but I wish they would at least have the courage to say so rather than pretend they're doing the other nations a service and trying to improve cricket as a global sport because they're not.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
It's a funny situation the ICC have got themselves into, in many ways. I remember when I first joined this forum and first started taking a heavy interest in international cricket, there was a lot of criticism of the ICC for carving out "false" internationals teams. Below the Test nations we had Kenya, and then we had a host of teams that were based primarily on heritage players, ex-pats and the sons of ex-pats. Richard was often one to accuse the ICC of promoting these sides to make the game look more popular across the world than it actually was, and it was a common view.

Whether that was entirely true or not at the time, what the ICC have done with these nations have been, to a very large degree, a success. They've poured a large amount of time, effort and money into developing cricket in countries like Ireland, Scotland, the UAE and the Netherlands and providing the necessary pathways for countries like Afghanistan and Nepal to advance and join them through (initially) very low level international cricket. As someone who has watched a lot of associate and affiliate cricket over the last few years, let me tell any of you who haven't that the standard has absolutely gone through the roof. Ireland and Afghanistan increasingly get mentioned on this forum but it's not just them; it's often said that the likes of Canada, Kenya, Namibia and even Scotland have "declined" and while it is true in some ways, it's been more about the other teams just improving past them. Realistically Scotland have a better side in terms of their skill base than they did five years ago; it's just no longer the gold standard of associate member cricket.

As they say though, be careful what you wish for. The ICC developed Ireland and Afghanistan to a point where with equal funding and exposure they could join Bangladesh and Zimbabwe very quickly; hell an argument could be made to suggest they've done so already and would likely pass them. But now that the ICC actually have more than eight to ten serious national cricket sides, they don't quite know what to do with them. The "pipe dream" was always to spread the game and create more Test sides, but fitting in twelve Test sides to an already busy international schedule is a massive challenge, particularly when the lower sides that already exist just aren't profitable for Test cricket in terms of gate receipts and TV rights deals (as an example, the money Zimbabwe get every time they play India has to last them until the next time they play India as literally all their other matches run at a loss).

Cricket, like a lot of other sports, works in four year cycles. An ODI World Cup every four years, a T20 World Cup every four years, a home Ashes every four years and an away Ashes every four years - all the big events roll around in that cycle (or are supposed to anyway..) so four years is looked upon almost as the length of an entire international cricket season. If each team played two home Test series and two away Test series every year then they'd play against eight other sides, home and away, in a four year period. Including themselves that's a pretty ideal sounding four year round robin for nine Test sides, and although the ICC have had some significant problems with the FTP, that's basically the structure they've looked towards. To expand Test cricket much beyond nine or ten you'd have to extend the cycle to five or six years (which would be a big financial drain on cricket with less regular show piece events), create two tiers with promotion and relegation (what they've proposed, but would no doubt exasperate the financial inequity between the boards) or just scrap the FTP altogether, which would do nothing but create a less fair and equitable version of two official tiers, with the big countries only playing each other regardless of where they sat on the rankings and the lower teams not bothering running Test series at massive losses, particularly with the ICC grants having been cut to support the new teams.

One idea would be to recognise that while spreading the game across the world and providing tangible pathways for young cricketers in other countries is desirable, eight or nine just works best for the international schedule at the moment. We already have the England (& Wales) Cricket Board and the combined West Indies regional side, so it perhaps wouldn't be a stretch to convert some of the other boards in a similar way. Given the close political and geograpgical links, we could have the Board of Control for Cricket in India (& Nepal), with Nepal introduced as a Ranji state side; the ECB could become the European Cricket Board with the County Championship expanded to include Scotland, Ireland and Netherlands; Cricket South Africa could become Cricket South(ern) Africa - Namibia already field a team in South Africa's First Class system and Zimbabwe quite easily could too. The complex political situation may prevent the formation of the Pakistan (& Afghanistan) Cricket Board, and I bet the Quaid-e-Azam Trophy players wouldn't be too keen to travel over the Pakistan/Afghanistan border to play a game of domestic cricket, but it could be worked towards too. Given the reality of the situation in England with any European players of calibre highly likely to take up County deals and quality for England - as we've seen - and the likelihood of Ranji teams doing similar things with Nepalese players in the future should they continue to develop, this would merely provide pathways for these players, give them access to the high quality facilities, coaching and money available in the big countries and actually give them official representation at the highest level, much like Wales. Of course, given this is already the unofficial reality of the matter, the big countries have very little incentive to do such a thing. Instead they're having a whinge about having to play New Zealand twice every four years.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
On the topic of four year windows, is there a reason other than "let's earn more money" why India are touring England again in 2014 and not 2015?
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Merger thing sounds... odd.
Yeah, I don't exactly love it either, but I think it's the unofficial reality of cricket at the moment anyway. We've literally already seen it happen with Ireland and Scotland (and in a more official sense with Wales), and if Nepal produced a world class 20 year old you can bet your bottom dollar he'd get signed up by a Ranji team and play for India if he was good enough. Better to have that hypothetical Nepalese kid play for Nepal in the Ranji trophy and India (& Nepal) in Tests than have him play for Mumbai and India and then pretend it's a fair fight when India plays against Nepal in the World Cup.
 

Garson007

State Vice-Captain
On the topic of four year windows, is there a reason other than "let's earn more money" why India are touring England again in 2014 and not 2015?
That's largely a problem with the current system. Higher ranked teams are skipping the others so there is no four year cycle.
 

Energetic

U19 Cricketer
Test Cricket is finish. If India dropped to tier 2 then I can guarantee you this whole system if enforced will be scrapped. ICC are just hypocrites. Teams in tier 2 or below will just not care about tests since it doesn't make big revenue.
 

Garson007

State Vice-Captain
Whether that was entirely true or not at the time, what the ICC have done with these nations have been, to a very large degree, a success. They've poured a large amount of time, effort and money into developing cricket in countries like Ireland, Scotland, the UAE and the Netherlands and providing the necessary pathways for countries like Afghanistan and Nepal to advance and join them through (initially) very low level international cricket. As someone who has watched a lot of associate and affiliate cricket over the last few years, let me tell any of you who haven't that the standard has absolutely gone through the roof. Ireland and Afghanistan increasingly get mentioned on this forum but it's not just them; it's often said that the likes of Canada, Kenya, Namibia and even Scotland have "declined" and while it is true in some ways, it's been more about the other teams just improving past them. Realistically Scotland have a better side in terms of their skill base than they did five years ago; it's just no longer the gold standard of associate member cricket.
Massive, massive fan of the WCL.
 

NasserFan207

International Vice-Captain
Test Cricket is finish. If India dropped to tier 2 then I can guarantee you this whole system if enforced will be scrapped. ICC are just hypocrites. Teams in tier 2 or below will just not care about tests since it doesn't make big revenue.
Not sure about NZ but WI hasn't cared about it for years, so its hardly something new. Players care about it because its the most rewarding (and toughest) format for skill, (and its still the same format whether you play Zimbabwe or Australia, the spectacle doesn't change that much) plus the oldschool fans and cricket geeks like us. I don't see how this would change if you introduced this system.

It might be a bit harsh on NZ or WI but lets be honest, it wouldn't be that much worse than the current system for them, and it would be a HUGE boost for the lowest ranked teams, which is what I care about.

I don't know why NZ fans are so pessimistic about their chances either. I'd give them good odds to make the top six sides. Big supporter of their current set up. I'd be more worried about SL and WI.
 
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HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I think two divisions could work if tours across the two divisions were allowed. i.e within the same division you must arrange a series for a minimum of 3 Tests (preferably 5), but you should still play series against teams in the 2nd tier - either one-offs or two test series. I'd like to think that the English fans at least would be disappointed to miss out on their jollies to the Caribbean, Sri Lanka or NZ.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
massive ****ing post
Nine sides might be ideal from a round robin POV, but I see no reason why the Test game can't expand to accomodate (at the very least) Ireland and Afghanistan. You wouldn't need to expand beyond the current 4 year window anyway; there would be no point in scheduling Ireland to visit South Africa for example; Ireland as a team and cricket as a game would gain absolutely nothing from that. Gradually introduce the new sides to Test Cricket the way Bangladesh should have been introduced instead of throwing them to the wolves. Australia coming to England for an Ashes series? Great, instead of playing some prank County 2nd XI side in a warm up, send them to Glasgow or Belfast for a one-off Test.
 

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