Who is the Best "Cricketer" Ever?

[H4G]

my question was, would you bat him in the top 6?

#7

 

[Red]

Its really interesting how people disregard a players abilities based on stats alone e.g Imran's batting but when it comes to their favorite cricketer e.g Sobers' bowling they come with stuff like "Stats are not everything" or "Stats don't matter".This is purely double standards.

Oddest reply.

My point was, no one had disregarded Imran's batting on stats. The opposite in fact. He did average 50ish for a decade or something, but still wasn't really a top 6 batsman because he was limited in a lot of ways.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Imran should bat below Gilly in an ATG XI, so that would be 8 if Sobers is 6 and Gilly is 7.

However I can understand if people don't want Immy in their ATG XI and pick Sobers instead as the only All-rounder like cricinfo XI.

 

[watson]

My point was, no one had disregarded Imran's batting on stats. The opposite in fact. He did average 50ish for a decade or something, but still wasn't really a top 6 batsman because he was limited in a lot of ways.

ESPN Cricinfo has Imran batting at No.6 in their ATG Pakistan XI;

All-time XI | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

I can only assume that this is because he averaged 61.86 over 20 innings at No.6 (mainly from 1987 onwards);

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

However, despite scoring 2x100s and 4x50s none of those innings are particularly noteworthy except for one - his matchwinning 73 not out against the West Indies at Karachi (1990). Pakistan won the Test Match by 8 wickets;

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63540.html

So I guess, in a normal balanced ATG team Imran would bat at 7 or 8 depending on who the keeper was. However, if the ATG team had to go for the win then there would be some justification for batting Imran higher up the order so as to strengthen the bowling attack.

 

[kyear2]

It was games like this which didn't help Sobers strike rate, but surely showed how economical he was.

5th Test: England v West Indies at The Oval, Aug 18-22, 1966 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Wonder why he would have bolwed himself so much, with Griffith, Hall and Gibbs in the side? Could only think that he played the role of stop bolwer while the others attacked from the other end. We could only wonder how much bettter his numbers would have been if he didn't have to shoulder the load of bowling so much overs.

 

[benchmark00]

My point was, no one had disregarded Imran's batting on stats. The opposite in fact. He did average 50ish for a decade or something, but still wasn't really a top 6 batsman because he was limited in a lot of ways.

I was saying his reply was odd ****.

 

[Red]

I was saying his reply was odd ****.

I do my best work at 4.30 am. Not in the evenings.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

It was games like this which didn't help Sobers strike rate, but surely showed how economical he was.

5th Test: England v West Indies at The Oval, Aug 18-22, 1966 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Wonder why he would have bolwed himself so much, with Griffith, Hall and Gibbs in the side? Could only think that he played the role of stop bolwer while the others attacked from the other end. We could only wonder how much bettter his numbers would have been if he didn't have to shoulder the load of bowling so much overs.

And the amount of times you have rubbished the claim, "we can only imagine how many more wickets Akram could have claimed if Pakistan had better fielders".

 

[akilana]

It was games like this which didn't help Sobers strike rate, but surely showed how economical he was.

5th Test: England v West Indies at The Oval, Aug 18-22, 1966 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Wonder why he would have bolwed himself so much, with Griffith, Hall and Gibbs in the side? Could only think that he played the role of stop bolwer while the others attacked from the other end. We could only wonder how much bettter his numbers would have been if he didn't have to shoulder the load of bowling so much overs.

His record would have been worse if he had some competition for wickets from his team mates. For someone who was thought to be a front line bowler and used as a srike bowler , he didn't take enough wickets.

 

[smash84]

adding to that he definitely didn't strike quick enough for a strike bowler

 

[marc71178]

But in spite of all these so call flaws, he's still the best all rounder in history by a country mile.

 

[Satyanash89]

But in spite of all these so call flaws, he's still the best all rounder in history

Yes

by a country mile.

No

That's just unfair to Imran, Miller, Kallis, etc. Sobers is not the Bradman of all rounders

 

[smash84]

But in spite of all these so call flaws, he's still the best all rounder in history by a country mile.

 

[marc71178]

All the others named have far bigger flaws (like you know, not actually doing it with the bat and ball at the same time)

 

[kyear2]

But in spite of all these so call flaws, he's still the best all rounder in history by a country mile.

Still regarded as the best.

In the pecking order of the game there will always be disputes regarding #3 down, but the top two is with out question Sobers and Bradman. Wisden's top 50 only had two unqueationable slots with Bradman receiving 100 votes to Sober's 90.
Cricinfo had three players who were unanimous selections, Warne, Sobers, Bradman. These guys place in the history of the game is indisputable.

Regarding the back ground noise, wouldn't expect anything less.

 

[Coronis]

All the others named have far bigger flaws (like you know, not actually doing it with the bat and ball at the same time)

The only one who really did that was Botham, iirc.

 

[marc71178]

Yes, but he somewhat tarnished his legacy by being on top for such a short period of time.

Although not as far ahead as DGB is of all his competitors, I'd still place a significant gap between Sobers and the pack.

 

[fredfertang]

I agree with marc 100%, but the real problem with Sobers is that to properly appreciate him you really need to have seen him - he was a fantastic batsman, and of those I've seen only Barry Richards was better, and by the time I saw Sobers he was undoubtedly past his best - he wasn't the same thing as a bowler, but on a greenish English wicket he could be, as I have already said, be lethal

 

[Coronis]

Sobers was excellent in England in 1970, 21 wickets @ 21.52, in what were basically tests. Just a few years before retirement too, very impressive.

Also found this on his Cricinfo page. "While Bradman's status as the greatest batsman is increasingly under threat, no one raises an eyebrow at Garry Sobers being called the greatest allrounder."

 

[smash84]

Sobers was excellent in England in 1970, 21 wickets @ 21.52, in what were basically tests. Just a few years before retirement too, very impressive.

Also found this on his Cricinfo page. "While Bradman's status as the greatest batsman is increasingly under threat, no one raises an eyebrow at Garry Sobers being called the greatest allrounder."

really? By whom?