Should Vettori switch & play ODIs/IT20s again instead of Tests?

[straw man]

It's a good question. Vettori's ODI bowling was always pretty good and our ODI bowling stocks don't look brilliant at the moment outside of Mills, Oram and NcCullum. So he would definitely be valuable there. Hasn't contributed hugely with the bat in limited overs as others have pointed out.

However I still think he's more valuable in tests than limited overs because I see his spot in the test team as crucial. Though I admit my answer is also swayed by not caring much about ODIs or T20s at present.

In tests we all know how Vettori's role in the side and this effect on balance has been debated endlessly. However Vettori is not the root cause* of the balance problems we have. The root causes are that
- none of the top 4 or probably even top 10 other bowlers in the country are competent batsmen.
- our openers have struggled for donkeys' years and that makes lower order batting doubly important.

If we say 'pick your six best batsmen, four best bowlers and keeper' and decide Vettori is not on either group (we wouldn't but for arguments sake), then we still have exactly the same balance problems. Vettori is part of the solution. His ability to contribute with both bat and ball goes some way to shoring up these problems and that makes him the second or third name on the team sheet in my test XI. This exceeds anything he could contribute to the ODI/T20 side in my books.

* I guess you could say Vettori not being a better bowler than he is is a root cause, however that's getting into wishful thinking - I also wish Guptill and Martin were better batsmen.

 

[SteveNZ]

I immediately thought 'yes' when I saw the thread title.

But there's a lot more permitations than that. A side featuring a physically and mentally fit Ryder, Taylor, McCullum, a run-scoring Guptill, another opener in reasonable form (and McCullum not opening) along with Brownlie then I say yes still.

But when Ryder isn't in, and we have no better options etc then he provides runs at 6-7 and at least holds up an end - and bowls out minnows. That's sometimes a handy asset.

 

[NUFAN]

Why can't Vettori play both ODI's and Tests? It's not as though you hear about New Zealand Cricketers complaining about a packed schedule.

 

[Eds]

Or.... 24 Tests (29 innings) if you combine his performances at 6 & 7 in which he averages under 30 as opposed to 39 batting at 8. that's quite telling to me.

You've completely ignored not outs.

If we count his average, whilst removing not outs from the mean formula, (ie. finding how many runs he actually does score, on average, at 6/7 and 8), we get:

6: 498 @ 29.29
7: 351 @ 29.25
8: 2227 @ 33.24

And that's certainly close enough to suggest Flem's right about the lack of time at 6/7 playing a part. He's bound to play slightly worse two places up from where he was, to begin with, because it's a completely different role.

 

[SteveNZ]

Why can't Vettori play both ODI's and Tests? It's not as though you hear about New Zealand Cricketers complaining about a packed schedule.

Because a lot of people don't think he's up to it as a Test spinner.

 

[Flem274*]

It's a bit of a bugger Todd Astle had an average season, because Nethula by himself isn't going to apply the pressure really needed to threaten Vettori's place as a bowler. Sure there are rumblings from fans and the media after Nethula's breakthrough season, but let's be frank; Vettori will not be dropped.

The country seems to have forgotten the existence of Bruce Martin as well, which is harsh on the guy because he's been putting up the numbers since his move to Auckland. Life's hard as a left arm fingerspinner. I don't have a strong opinion on his test credentials because I haven't watched him bowl at length, but he deserves a shout out.

 

[Debris]

Where is the "No because who cares about ODIs and T20s" option?

 

[Kippax]

"At this stage there's no plan for a comeback but if those guys (Black Caps management) talk to me then I'd certainly consider it." was Vettori's answer on making himself available for this year's T20 WC. Also, I find it very hard to picture Vettori sitting on his couch or in the comm box watching the 2015 WC (in Aus and NZ).

This is enough for me. So my vote for Tests is really a vote for the status quo, or 'what I think will pan out'.

 

[Hurricane]

I view tests as being more important than ODIs. And he is a test match standard player. Which we have few of. So yes I would keep him for tests.

He dissapointed in the SA series but he will bounce back. I think the bowling was too good for him. Which tells you how good Kane's century was even if he was dropped.

I think his bowling dissapointed because he got even less spin than he normally does.

 

[Pup Clarke]

The truth is Vettori very, very rarely gets consistent spin. His action is just too front-on to be able to impart enough "revs".

 

[Prince EWS]

Absolutely not.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Care to elaborate?

 

[benchmark00]

Why can't Vettori play both ODI's and Tests? It's not as though you hear about New Zealand Cricketers complaining about a packed schedule.

This is the best post of the thread.

Rare, because Nufan is generally a ****.

 

[Hurricane]

Maybe he is just done with that form of the game and can't be bothered taking them seriously. I think he is pretty motivated by statistics and I don't think he cares about his ODI numbers.

 

[Flem274*]

If he was really motivated by stats he would notice how good his batting numbers are compared to his bowling numbers.

But tbf we keep picking him as our strike spinner, so he has to try and be that guy.

 

[morgieb]

Why can't Vettori play both ODI's and Tests? It's not as though you hear about New Zealand Cricketers complaining about a packed schedule.

Thank you.

 

[Flem274*]

Because he doesn't want to?

Retirement is a pretty decent reason. There will only be one Afridi.

 

[benchmark00]

Because he doesn't want to?

Retirement is a pretty decent reason. There will only be one Afridi.

People from proper test playing nations quit playing ODI's and T20's because along with tests the schedule is so so jam packed.

NZ don't have that problem, they hardly play test matches so it's not like the work load is too much.

 

[Spikey]

unlike you to get all up in arms when a guy admits he cbf tbh

 

[benchmark00]

All for someone who cbf itbt. Just wondering.

Dan should ask for cliffs on international cricket imo.