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The best at their peak?

ankitj

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
^ Now I can claim there is logic and not just emotion in my rating Murali the best test as well as ODI bowler of all time :p

EDIT: Here is his stats summary in that period. In no country and against no opposition, does Murali have an ER > 4. That's insane considering the era.
 
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smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
8ankitj said:
Good list - The List: Who is closest to Don Bradman, George Lohmann and Joel Garner? | Regulars | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

Imran Khan is a ****ing legend!

The article also has a list of best stretch of ODI ERs for the same length that Garner played for (98 ODIs @ ER of 3.09). Murali at #3 is a sensation. ER of 3.26 between 1999 and 2004. FMD :-O
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yeah I noted that too.

Imran's 18 test peak is the best post war peak by a bowler.

That murali ER is bloody amazing given the era that he played. Should be better than Garner's given era adjustment.
 
weldone

weldone

Hall of Fame Member
smalishah84 said:
yeah I noted that too.

Imran's 18 test peak is the best post war peak by a bowler.

That murali ER is bloody amazing given the era that he played. Should be better than Garner's given era adjustment.
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I rate Muralitharan as the best ODI bowler ever. I mean these kind of performances in ODIs are insane (for a losing cause in this case, though):

HowSTAT! ODI Scorecard

10-3-9-5 ! WTF!
 
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ankitj

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
Here's more Murali awesomeness:

Code: 
[B]Player			Wkts	Ave	Econ	SR	5w	4w[/B]
J Garner 		146	18.84	3.09	36.5	3	2
RJ Hadlee 		136	20.48	3.2	38.4	4	1
M Muralitharan 		172	16.79	3.26	30.8	5	6
MA Holding 		136	21.34	3.32	38.6	1	4
MD Marshall 		127	22.87	3.32	41.2	0	4
CEL Ambrose 		120	24.48	3.38	43.5	2	1
EJ Chatfield 		123	24.1	3.44	41.9	0	3
GD McGrath 		146	19.72	3.5	33.7	3	3
SM Pollock 		104	28.02	3.53	47.5	1	2
Imran Khan 		106	22.63	3.55	38.2	1	2
N Kapil Dev 		107	27.36	3.6	45.5	0	2
Wasim Akram 		151	20.86	3.65	34.2	3	8
CA Walsh 		110	28.46	3.69	46.3	0	2
GR Larsen 		94	34.5	3.71	55.8	0	1
CJ McDermott 		156	21.6	3.85	33.6	1	3
DL Vettori 		122	26.71	3.87	41.3	2	4
PAJ DeFreitas 		111	32.05	3.9	49.3	0	1
WPUJC Vaas 		138	22.84	3.9	35.1	2	4
RW Price 		97	34.48	3.9	52.9	0	1
RA Harper 		90	34.68	3.92	53.0	0	3
Murali has most wickets at lowest average and lowest SR, with most 5w in that 98 match period in that table! I knew Murali was a bloody awesome ODI bowler at his peak but didn't know he was this good.
 
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smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
Agent Nationaux said:
Does that make Murali the greatest ODI bowler ever?
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I think I would still put him behind Akram at least (alongside McGrath maybe or with him).

Akram bowled in the last 5 overs of the innings consistently throughout his 19 year career. None of the other bowlers consistently bowled so much in the death overs as did Wasim.
 
ankitj

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
Agent Nationaux said:
Does that make Murali the greatest ODI bowler ever?
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I would say that with more conviction now. In ODIs, it's trickier to rate bowlers because wicket taking and bowling economically are both important. But then if Murali has a stretch of ~100 matches that is better than anybody else's stretch of same length on all parameters (except ER where he is 3rd, but even that will be taken care of by era adjustment), it will be hard to argue against Murali. And then there is longevity factor too. Around the peak, Murali wasn't exactly crap, unlike someone like Saqlain who faded very fast.

PS. Apologies everyone for taking this thread on a slightly different tangent here.
 
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H

hang on

State Vice-Captain
if the number of tests is increased (not 52), kallis actually tops the list. think that ankitj had posted such a list in another thread recently. which is even more impressive than the mindboggling streaks of sobers and ponting and kallis.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
hang on said:
if the number of tests is increased (not 52), kallis actually tops the list. think that ankitj had posted such a list in another thread recently. which is even more impressive than the mindboggling streaks of sobers and ponting and kallis.
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Sobers' peak was spread over a greater number of years. Personally, I think that is harder to achieve...
 
smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
I thought peak was about performance over time OR over matches. The two could over lap but you generally used one measure
 
ankitj

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
So I thought that ODI bowler list was based on ERs and therefore did not include the peaks of bowlers like Donald, Waqar and Saqlain who used to take bucketful of ODI wickets but were not very miserly. So I decided to create a little table of my own with these 3 along side Murali, Akram, McGrath, Ambrose and Pollock who appeared in the ER based table, and also threw Warne in the mix. I looked at 100 match stretch (sounds much better than 98), and took the peak periods based on number of wickets for each. Here is what I get:

Code: 
[B]Player		Start date	End date	Wkts	ER	Avg	SR[/B]
Saqlain		15-Oct-95	31-May-99	193	4.24	19.3	27.2
Donald		21-Oct-95	3-Oct-02	187	4.17	19.4	27.8
Muralitharan	14-Jul-00	2-Aug-05	185	3.33	16.3	29.4
Waqar		15-Feb-90	26-Feb-96	180	4.46	21.1	28.4
McGrath		15-Jan-99	11-Mar-03	175	3.84	19.0	29.8
Akram		27-Apr-90	24-Feb-96	160	3.73	20.8	33.5
Warne		16-Dec-93	31-Jan-99	155	4.19	25.6	36.7
Pollock		2-Apr-97	5-May-01	152	3.80	21.6	34.1
Ambrose		12-Mar-88	16-Dec-93	149	3.50	21.2	36.3
Defining peaks in this way, Saqlain and Donald come out ahead of Murali on # of wickets, but Murali tops the ER and Average. Ambrose is second most miserly in the table but not a very prolific wicket taker.
 
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honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
smalishah84 said:
I thought peak was about performance over time OR over matches. The two could over lap but you generally used one measure
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The Cricinfo guys have done it based on matches but personally, I rate someone keeping up 60 average over 52 games spreak over 10 years than a guy who has done that in 5 years... One way to look at it is that the number of games would tax the batsman, but the DA to that is that you are cashing in with more games when you are the peak of your prowess, which is not the case for the people who played earlier.


It is a personal choice and I would go with the guy who has maintained the peak over the same number of games but over a higher number of years.
 
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