Garry Sobers, The Bowler?

[Avada Kedavra]

I know that but I meant over a career not over a particluar period. He did that in 50 tests which implies he was next to rubbish in the other 38 odd tests.

I don't think Imran was ever rubbish,tbh.Even if you wish to overlook that 50 test stat,Imran's overall numbers are very impressive as well- averaged 37 with the bat(which is probably modern day 40) and 22 with the ball.He was great at both disciplines in addition to being arguably the greatest captain of all time.

I am not putting down Sobers or anything,btw-w/o doubt he is in the uppermost echleon of players.

 

[Ikki]

I know that but I meant over a career not over a particluar period. He did that in 50 tests which implies he was next to rubbish in the other 38 odd tests.

Imran's batting stats have many pitfalls. The not-outs and the amount of runs he scored should be taken into consideration. I put him 3rd with the bat in comparison to bowling all-rounders, behind Miller and Botham.

 

[smash84]

Imran's batting stats have many pitfalls. The not-outs and the amount of runs he scored should be taken into consideration. I put him 3rd with the bat in comparison to bowling all-rounders, behind Miller and Botham.

True.....his batting wasn't all that great really..........the only thing that I would say is that he was somewhat consistent....and as an observer you knew that Imran wouldn't throw away his wicket.....he probably wouldn't give the other side as many chances as Miler or Botham and he wasn't as exciting a batsman as those 2 (at least not as exciting as Botham).

 

[Slifer]

I know you rate him pretty highly but "certainly the 3rd best cricketer"..........Slifer do you always make statements that are difficult to defend ...........a case can be made but to say that with certainty might be stretching it IMO.

I dont think its that difficult to defend, since its just my opinion which implies that its not set in stone. But for the cricketers like the Shane Warnes, Hobbs, Vivs etc who are/were rated above him as cricketers can u make a convincing argument as to y ne of them were better cricketers than Imran??

 

[nightprowler10]

I'd hate to see another Sobers thread turn into a giant all rounder comparison, a discussion that has truly been done to death. So just a gentle reminder guys, let's keep it about Sobers, or else we really don't need the thread and it will be closed.

 

[smash84]

I dont think its that difficult to defend, since its just my opinion which implies that its not set in stone. But for the cricketers like the Shane Warnes, Hobbs, Vivs etc who are/were rated above him as cricketers can u make a convincing argument as to y ne of them were better cricketers than Imran??

Probably not.....Imran's case is quite strong for the third great cricketer but my lack of arguments is also due to my paucity of knowledge on pre-1990 cricketers and the lack of thought given to this topic.

 

[smash84]

I'd hate to see another Sobers thread turn into a giant all rounder comparison, a discussion that has truly been done to death. So just a gentle reminder guys, let's keep it about Sobers, or else we really don't need the thread and it will be closed.

sorry mod..........you are right...........we do seem to be digressing here

 

[Slifer]

Ok fair enough. To the point of the thread, Sobers was certainly no all time great bowler. But there were ocasions (numerous tbh) where Sobers could bring his bowling skills to bear and have an impact on a test/series. He certainly aint making my all time Windies team on the strength of his bowling but more so for his batting (his bowling icing on the cake) and his outstanding fielding. In way its what Oz or Pakistan (sorry couldnt resist) have done but in reverese. Picking their all rounders more for their bowling skills for neither Imran nor Miller were no where near being great batsmen either.

 

[sifter132]

My impression was that Sobers was a very SKILLFUL bowler, but not particularly effective. In other words, pleasing to the eye (nice action, able to swing it), and versatile too being able to bowl different ways. But being pleasing to the eye and versatile does not make you a great bowler. So I think Sobers was an underachiever with the ball given his skillset, but gets overrated historically because of his style and versatility. You can argue his role in the team made him underachieve, whatever, but I think the stats speak for themselves. Rarely did Sobers get results with the ball. His opposite would be a guy like Kallis or maybe Watson. Guys who trudge in unathlectically, yet are often quite effective - more than you would think if you were watching them bowl for the first time.

This is to me almost like the Wasim Akram argument, who I think gets overrated a lot. Given his skills Wasim should have been the best bowler of all time, but he wasn't - just very, very good. Yet he becomes more of a legend with each year because people remember his awesome performances and deliveries more than his career as a whole.

 

[robelinda]

My impression was that Sobers was a very SKILLFUL bowler, but not particularly effective. In other words, pleasing to the eye (nice action, able to swing it), and versatile too being able to bowl different ways. But being pleasing to the eye and versatile does not make you a great bowler. So I think Sobers was an underachiever with the ball given his skillset, but gets overrated historically because of his style and versatility. You can argue his role in the team made him underachieve, whatever, but I think the stats speak for themselves. Rarely did Sobers get results with the ball. His opposite would be a guy like Kallis or maybe Watson. Guys who trudge in unathlectically, yet are often quite effective - more than you would think if you were watching them bowl for the first time.

This is to me almost like the Wasim Akram argument, who I think gets overrated a lot. Given his skills Wasim should have been the best bowler of all time, but he wasn't - just very, very good. Yet he becomes more of a legend with each year because people remember his awesome performances and deliveries more than his career as a whole.

THIS. Agree completely. England had their worst batting lineup in the 90's yet Wasim was ineffective. Average of 30 vs Eng says it all.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Are we questioning Wasim Akram's credentials?Seriously?A player who took 414 test wickets @ 23?!Wasim was more than just v.v good.He is an ATG,up there with the Imrans,Hadlees,Marshalls,Ambroses and Mcgraths of the world.

 

[Slifer]

I don't think Imran was ever rubbish,tbh.Even if you wish to overlook that 50 test stat,Imran's overall numbers are very impressive as well- averaged 37 with the bat(which is probably modern day 40) and 22 with the ball.He was great at both disciplines in addition to being arguably the greatest captain of all time.

I am not putting down Sobers or anything,btw-w/o doubt he is in the uppermost echleon of players.

Fair enough nothing wrong at all with what u wrote. Its really such a shame that Pakistani cricket has been so marignalised in recent times otherwise I think Imran would get more of tne notoriety he deserves

 

[Prince EWS]

My impression was that Sobers was a very SKILLFUL bowler, but not particularly effective. In other words, pleasing to the eye (nice action, able to swing it), and versatile too being able to bowl different ways. But being pleasing to the eye and versatile does not make you a great bowler. So I think Sobers was an underachiever with the ball given his skillset, but gets overrated historically because of his style and versatility. You can argue his role in the team made him underachieve, whatever, but I think the stats speak for themselves. Rarely did Sobers get results with the ball. His opposite would be a guy like Kallis or maybe Watson. Guys who trudge in unathlectically, yet are often quite effective - more than you would think if you were watching them bowl for the first time.

This is to me almost like the Wasim Akram argument, who I think gets overrated a lot. Given his skills Wasim should have been the best bowler of all time, but he wasn't - just very, very good. Yet he becomes more of a legend with each year because people remember his awesome performances and deliveries more than his career as a whole.

 

[vcs]

Would like to watch some clips of Sobers bowling, if possible.

 

[robelinda]

i like it!

 

[Prince EWS]

Would like to watch some clips of Sobers bowling, if possible.

It will only taint your opinion; don't do it!

 

[vcs]

It will only taint your opinion; don't do it!

Don't really have much of an opinion on it, TBH.

 

[Prince EWS]

Don't really have much of an opinion on it, TBH.

Worst place to start then.
He looks a far better bowler than he actually was.

 

[smash84]

My impression was that Sobers was a very SKILLFUL bowler, but not particularly effective. In other words, pleasing to the eye (nice action, able to swing it), and versatile too being able to bowl different ways. But being pleasing to the eye and versatile does not make you a great bowler. So I think Sobers was an underachiever with the ball given his skillset, but gets overrated historically because of his style and versatility. You can argue his role in the team made him underachieve, whatever, but I think the stats speak for themselves. Rarely did Sobers get results with the ball. His opposite would be a guy like Kallis or maybe Watson. Guys who trudge in unathlectically, yet are often quite effective - more than you would think if you were watching them bowl for the first time.

This is to me almost like the Wasim Akram argument, who I think gets overrated a lot. Given his skills Wasim should have been the best bowler of all time, but he wasn't - just very, very good. Yet he becomes more of a legend with each year because people remember his awesome performances and deliveries more than his career as a whole.

So true. Well written. I have no doubt that there have been few (if any) better "magicians" of the cricket ball than Wasim. I have seen him bowl deliveries which seem to be coming into the batsmen when in the air and then move away after pitching. Nobody that I have seen over the years could do as much with the ball as Wasim. However all his talent did not materialize in wicket taking ability which is what really counts at the end of the day.

By the way I am only talking of Test cricket here. In ODIs he was, for me, the greatest bowler ever.

 

[thierry henry]

Sobers bowled pace on spinning wickets, so an additional spinner can be added to the lineup. And he bowled spin on green wickets so a pacer can be added in extra. His Avg of 34 comprised of bowling done under the worst possible conditions.

Bowl the least effective style at all times. Pure cricketing genius.