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3rd best cricketer ever?
- Thread starter Francis
- Start date
kingkallis
International Coach
Shane Warne...
Burgey
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Who's number 2 then?
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
I'm guessing it's Tendulkar.
Burgey
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I hope so, I need a good giggle.
Teja.
Global Moderator
Nah, I rekon he means Sobers-Murali would be 2-3 in an undecided order. I'm guessing because he has always maintained Murali to be a finer cricketer than Tendulkar.
Athlai
Not Terrible
3.
W.G. Grace | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com
Nominated by 85% of voters - highest ranking no.1
Whether or not Dr William Gilbert Grace - simply known as The Champion - was the very greatest cricketer ever to play the game, what is surely not in doubt for all time is that he is the most important and influential. No other individual has ever had such an impact on the development and popularisation of the game of cricket as Grace, who bestrode the cricketing world as its dominant figure for the better part of half a century. Virtually throughout that period, his status was unrivalled - when one cricket writer in the 1880s dared to suggest Grace was slightly past his best and that Australia's Billy Murdoch had taken his place as the world's best batsman, the commotion was tremendous. To question the great man's supremacy was tantamount to heresy. With his tall, imposing frame and trademark long, black bushy beard Grace was one of the most recognisable men in the British Empire and, as has often been quoted, for many years ranked alongside Prime Minister WE Gladstone as the best known of all Englishmen. Grace was officially designated an amateur - or Gentleman, if you will - and yet made more money out of the game than any professional of his or many subsequent eras. He was a man who more than knew his worth and stories are legion of the good doctor's propensity to collect testimonials and appearance fees. Such was his status that it seems such payments were always gladly paid, and match organisers were rarely too much out of pocket - it has passed down into legend that admission prices for tickets doubled for matches in which Grace was playing.
His numbers are nothing short of staggering, particularly given the era in which he played - over 54,000 First Class runs and nearly 3,000 wickets. While Grace was a very successful bowler at FC level it is really his batting which truly assured his immortality. In 1866 at the age of 18 he scored 224 not out for England against Surrey, in 1876 he hit 839 runs - including two triple centuries - in the space of 8 days when only one other batsman made 1,000 runs in the entire season, he scored 1,000 runs before the end of May in 1895, when he was 47 and was still opening for England at the age of 50. At Test level, even though the Test era came slightly after his peak, Grace made two of the biggest scores in early international cricket - 152 against Australia and 170 against South Africa. Not remotely averse to pure, cheeky gamesmanship, The Champion often resorted to all kinds of tricks and techniques to gain an advantage for himself or his team - the kind of things a lesser man would be crucified for, one feels, and yet such was Grace's pre-eminence that such matters were invariably accepted and it is rare to find a contemporary who did not write or speak of him with genuine warmth and affection. When he died of a heart attack in 1915, the empire paused from the horrors of war to remember and mourn the man who transformed cricket from a weekend pastime into England's dominant summer sport.
As decided by CW (Sobers 2, Bradman1)
Warne 4
Hobbs 5
Tendulkar 6
Imran 7
Richards 8
Marshall 9
Hadlee 10
Personally wouldn't have Warne in my top 10.
This was my top 10:
1. Don Bradman
2. WG Grace
3. SF Barnes
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Garfield Sobers
6. Richard Hadlee
7. Viv Richards
8. Murali
9. Jack Hobbs
10. Imran Khan
(Warne 13)
W.G. Grace | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com
Nominated by 85% of voters - highest ranking no.1
Whether or not Dr William Gilbert Grace - simply known as The Champion - was the very greatest cricketer ever to play the game, what is surely not in doubt for all time is that he is the most important and influential. No other individual has ever had such an impact on the development and popularisation of the game of cricket as Grace, who bestrode the cricketing world as its dominant figure for the better part of half a century. Virtually throughout that period, his status was unrivalled - when one cricket writer in the 1880s dared to suggest Grace was slightly past his best and that Australia's Billy Murdoch had taken his place as the world's best batsman, the commotion was tremendous. To question the great man's supremacy was tantamount to heresy. With his tall, imposing frame and trademark long, black bushy beard Grace was one of the most recognisable men in the British Empire and, as has often been quoted, for many years ranked alongside Prime Minister WE Gladstone as the best known of all Englishmen. Grace was officially designated an amateur - or Gentleman, if you will - and yet made more money out of the game than any professional of his or many subsequent eras. He was a man who more than knew his worth and stories are legion of the good doctor's propensity to collect testimonials and appearance fees. Such was his status that it seems such payments were always gladly paid, and match organisers were rarely too much out of pocket - it has passed down into legend that admission prices for tickets doubled for matches in which Grace was playing.
His numbers are nothing short of staggering, particularly given the era in which he played - over 54,000 First Class runs and nearly 3,000 wickets. While Grace was a very successful bowler at FC level it is really his batting which truly assured his immortality. In 1866 at the age of 18 he scored 224 not out for England against Surrey, in 1876 he hit 839 runs - including two triple centuries - in the space of 8 days when only one other batsman made 1,000 runs in the entire season, he scored 1,000 runs before the end of May in 1895, when he was 47 and was still opening for England at the age of 50. At Test level, even though the Test era came slightly after his peak, Grace made two of the biggest scores in early international cricket - 152 against Australia and 170 against South Africa. Not remotely averse to pure, cheeky gamesmanship, The Champion often resorted to all kinds of tricks and techniques to gain an advantage for himself or his team - the kind of things a lesser man would be crucified for, one feels, and yet such was Grace's pre-eminence that such matters were invariably accepted and it is rare to find a contemporary who did not write or speak of him with genuine warmth and affection. When he died of a heart attack in 1915, the empire paused from the horrors of war to remember and mourn the man who transformed cricket from a weekend pastime into England's dominant summer sport.
As decided by CW (Sobers 2, Bradman1)
Warne 4
Hobbs 5
Tendulkar 6
Imran 7
Richards 8
Marshall 9
Hadlee 10
Personally wouldn't have Warne in my top 10.
This was my top 10:
1. Don Bradman
2. WG Grace
3. SF Barnes
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Garfield Sobers
6. Richard Hadlee
7. Viv Richards
8. Murali
9. Jack Hobbs
10. Imran Khan
(Warne 13)
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Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
You disgust me!
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
I was kidding with Athlai...but nah, neither McGrath nor Murali outstrip him comfortably. I think the only cricketer that outstrips him comfortably is Bradman - but then again, that goes for every cricketer.
By 2000 Warne was already high on the pantheon of 'great' cricketers list, and built upon that towards the latter half his career with series like the one in Sri Lanka and the infamous Ashes 05. You just have to listen to some of his peers to fathom how special he was. McGrath may have been cheaper, Murali have taken more...but no one in my viewing made game-changing spells as often as Warne.
I think there are all-time greats and then there is a level of all-time greats that transcend further. Guys like Warne or Viv epitomise that. McGrath and Murali themselves think of Warne as the greatest bowler of all-time.
By 2000 Warne was already high on the pantheon of 'great' cricketers list, and built upon that towards the latter half his career with series like the one in Sri Lanka and the infamous Ashes 05. You just have to listen to some of his peers to fathom how special he was. McGrath may have been cheaper, Murali have taken more...but no one in my viewing made game-changing spells as often as Warne.
I think there are all-time greats and then there is a level of all-time greats that transcend further. Guys like Warne or Viv epitomise that. McGrath and Murali themselves think of Warne as the greatest bowler of all-time.
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vcs
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Warne and Viv have the charismatic personality and theatrical presence on the field, but these things are hard to quantify and put a price on. At the end of the day, I believe they were backed up by their team-mates as much as the other way around.. Australia's ODI aura certainly didn't go away when Warne stopped playing that format.
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
I think the thing the two have over him in ODIs is longevity (similar avg/sr when you take out the minnow teams) and that's because he retired early. Personally, I don't really factor ODIs as important as others do, but for any indication look at Warne in WC 96 and 99 - the stuff of dreams at times. I'd still take him over Murali as a ODI spinner, especially considering his batting and fielding. McGrath I'd give the nod over as a ODI bowler though.
I think that's selling them short. Is it because they have a certain attitude that made them rated higher or because they tended to deliver when it was most important and thus earn that legend? If it were only fans that tended to rate them higher because of this 'theatrical' quality, I'd agree with you. However, their contemporaries are in awe of them as well. I'd not argue they are under a spell too.
TBF, Aus were even better when Warne retired IMO. Probably man for man and overall a better team. But Aus weren't really that dominating when Warne was playing in ODIs. Not in 96 not 99. His performances against the WIndies and S.Africa (who were even better than Aus were at the time) in both semis in both WC96 and WC99 indicate just what he did for Aus cricket in terms of ODIs. We weren't the best, weren't playing the best, yet one guy kept making the important difference.
In total, his relatively shorter career works against him in ODIs, but his ratios show he was of the same quality as the aforementioned two, and in big games was even better than them.
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vcs
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Well, longevity is certainly an important thing to consider in my view. Warne was great in '99 but was dealt with fairly comfortably in the '96 final.
Also, without wanting to offend anyone, the reason for his ODI retirement counts as a negative for him as it was not really due to health reasons or anything.
Also, without wanting to offend anyone, the reason for his ODI retirement counts as a negative for him as it was not really due to health reasons or anything.