The Power of Hypocrisy - an anti BCCI rant

[jeevan]

And here I thought we were talking about sports administration....

Yes, let's not digress. About 5 minutes of googling shows up:
Transparency in Sport
(Gasp, FIFA & IOC. Site seems to be legit, dont know much about FIFA or IOC myself)

And since you are studying at a US university, if the athletics programs are any good at all at your school, you just have to walk over to where the "amateur" football (American) or basketball players live to get some clue of how much creativity goes into interpreting NCAA rules to try to hang on to the superstars-to-be for another season. (There was a top 10 pick where I was, and for 2 years he had 'privileges' no other student could even dream of.) .

And as per your claim of zero transparency wrt BCCI:
- a former president did jail time for misuse of funds
- the guy who came up with their biggest cash cow now faces civil & criminal charges, having lost his cushy position
- a Union minister had to give up his financial stake in a major business deal, that frankly he put together in the first place & wouldn't have made it without his tremendous enthusiasm. So he had earned part of his cut.
- the present ICC president had to explain his business connections for a failed franchise bid.

Surely, with your much-flaunted scientific training, you'll recognize this as not being absolute zero?

 

[silentstriker]

Yes, let's not digress. About 5 minutes of googling shows up:
Transparency in Sport
(Gasp, FIFA & IOC. Site seems to be legit, dont know much about FIFA or IOC myself)

And since you are studying at a US university, if the athletics programs are any good at all at your school, you just have to walk over to where the "amateur" football (American) or basketball players live to get some clue of how much creativity goes into interpreting NCAA rules to try to hang on to the superstars-to-be for another season. (There was a top 10 pick where I was, and for 2 years he had 'privileges' no other student could even dream of.) .

Wow, you are actually comparing the NCAA to BCCI? In terms of professionalism? If you're going to even attempt to argue that, you just have no credibility left. Sorry to say it so bluntly, but please look into the governance of the NCAA. I know people who deal with the NCAA - you're out of your mind if you compare BCCI with NCAA and NCAA affiliated programs. Do you know how much accountability there is? The fact that you have to work so hard to get away with minor things like recruiting a player a month early proves that point, not yours.

And as per your claim of zero transparency wrt BCCI:
- a former president did jail time for misuse of funds
- the guy who came up with their biggest cash cow now faces civil & criminal charges, having lost his cushy position
- a Union minister had to give up his financial stake in a major business deal, that frankly he put together in the first place & wouldn't have made it without his tremendous enthusiasm. So he had earned part of his cut.
- the present ICC president had to explain his business connections for a failed franchise bid.

Surely, with your much-flaunted scientific training, you'll recognize this as not being absolute zero?

No it's zero. Because it's politically motivated, not through actual recordkeeping. The jailtime was when his critics got the upper hand and beat him in an election, and wanted to punish him. And is that guy out of Cricket administration yet? Same with Modi. The fact that you can get away with doing it for years and it's all OK until someone decides to use it as a grudge makes it worse, not better.

How about having to explain the charges the next day, or week, or month? Who is checking those accounts? Where is the total income/expenditures list, like any good non profit?

 

[Major Glory]

i dont support india just bcoz of the BCCI they are corrupted

and support india only bcoz of Sachin

 

[Sanz]

Another feather in BCCI's cap.

No UDRS for Sri Lanka-India Tests | Cricket News | Sri Lanka v India | Cricinfo.com

The UDRS, which has courted controversy since its implementation, was first used in the 2008 series between the same teams, and immediately became a key player in the contest. The controversial and impractical Virender Sehwag dismissal aside, Sri Lanka used the challenge system way better than India, securing marginal lbw dismissals for Muttiah Muralitharan and Ajantha Mendis that would have otherwise needed brave umpires to call. Sri Lanka made 11 successful reviews in that 2-1 series win, as opposed to India's one.
On their return tour to India, Kumar Sangakkara lamented the absence of the UDRS. He said it cost his side "over 500 runs and a lot of wickets" during the 2-0 defeat. To add to his frustrations then, the review system was used in two simultaneous series being played elsewhere.

Once again using their might to hide their incompetence.

 

[Major Glory]

This clearly shows where the power and money of BCCI is taking the game of cricket

 

[jeevan]

Wow, you are actually comparing the NCAA to BCCI? In terms of professionalism? If you're going to even attempt to argue that, you just have no credibility left. Sorry to say it so bluntly, but please look into the governance of the NCAA. I know people who deal with the NCAA - you're out of your mind if you compare BCCI with NCAA and NCAA affiliated programs. Do you know how much accountability there is? The fact that you have to work so hard to get away with minor things like recruiting a player a month early proves that point, not yours.

If you read carefully, I'm referring to the sports administrators who work so hard to skirt the NCAA rules.

 

[jeevan]

How about having to explain the charges the next day, or week, or month? Who is checking those accounts? Where is the total income/expenditures list, like any good non profit?

Isn't that what the tax department asked BCCI to do this year?

 

[jeevan]

\
No it's zero. Because it's politically motivated, not through actual recordkeeping. The jailtime was when his critics got the upper hand and beat him in an election, and wanted to punish him. And is that guy out of Cricket administration yet? Same with Modi. The fact that you can get away with doing it for years and it's all OK until someone decides to use it as a grudge makes it worse, not better.

If facts come to light, and people are punished - it is transparency. In real life, as in physics, transparency is a matter of degree, and light travels at different speed in various media.

An example of completely non-transparent organization would be an old boys club, where they might have internal differences, but those are kept hidden and not used to out each others doings.

If you're into absolute objectivity and questioning people's motives- all power to you. Start with trying to figure how CA picked John Howard over John Anderson. By what non-political measure is the latter an inferior candidate to head the ICC?

 

[Lionel Messi]

this

 

[silentstriker]

If you read carefully, I'm referring to the sports administrators who work so hard to skirt the NCAA rules.

They work hard to skirt minor rules - that sounds like pretty good accountability and professionalism to me.

Are you seriously comparing the level of professionalism between the BCCI and NCAA?

Isn't that what the tax department asked BCCI to do this year?

I'd love to see a balance sheet.

If facts come to light, and people are punished - it is transparency.

No, when a political score needs to be settled, facts come to light. That is a massively different thing.

If you're into absolute objectivity and questioning people's motives- all power to you. Start with trying to figure how CA picked John Howard over John Anderson. By what non-political measure is the latter an inferior candidate to head the ICC?

NZ supported Howard in the end - Anderson said he may not be able to devote his full time to the job, which worked against him.

 

[jeevan]

They work hard to skirt minor rules - that sounds like pretty good accountability and professionalism to me.

Are you seriously comparing the level of professionalism between the BCCI and NCAA?



I'd love to see a balance sheet.


No, when a political score needs to be settled, facts come to light. That is a massively different thing.




NZ supported Howard in the end - Anderson said he may not be able to devote his full time to the job, which worked against him.

No, I'm not comparing the professionalism of the NCAA with BCCi, dont put words in my mouth. Just pointing out that bending of rules is very common in sports administration, after that it is a matter of degree.

The presidency of the ICC is not a full time job. ICC has a CEO for the day to day stuff.

Let me ask you: Is John Howard a more professional selection than John Anderson?

 

[jeevan]

I'd love to see a balance sheet.
.

So, go to India and file an application under the right to information act. BCCI's balance sheet has been submitted to the tax authorities this year. You can also file a public interest litigation suit to have it directly put on the internet. There are these two fine tools at your disposal.

I figure, since you feel so passionately that the BCCI needs to be reformed, you'll spend the time and energy to start that process. Hundreds of CW posters, if not thousands, will support you right away. Millions will, in India, when you act.

As Gandhi said "Be the change you wish to see in the world".

Or, be an internet warrior.

 

[G.I.Joe]

haha

 

[Debris]

The presidency of the ICC is not a full time job.

That about says it all. How can the presidency of the ICC not be full-time?

 

[jeevan]

That about says it all. How can the presidency of the ICC not be full-time?

Because they have a chief executive officer, who presumably leads the implementation of whatever the policies of the council are. The presidency,currently, is a fixed period (2 years) and a rotational gig, the CEO is not, and can persist across several presidencies.

It being a full time job would've eliminated Sharad Pawar from consideration.

 

[silentstriker]

No, I'm not comparing the professionalism of the NCAA with BCCi, dont put words in my mouth. Just pointing out that bending of rules is very common in sports administration, after that it is a matter of degree.

So since organization A is not perfect, that automatically excuses organization B because it's doing the same thing but to a much bigger degree? So unless ECB has never done a single wrong thing in its history, BCCI can do whatever they want and they'll be on equal footing?

Let me ask you: Is John Howard a more professional selection than John Anderson?

I'm not sure what that means - they decided they wanted someone who could devote their full time.

 

[silentstriker]

I figure, since you feel so passionately that the BCCI needs to be reformed, you'll spend the time and energy to start that process. Hundreds of CW posters, if not thousands, will support you right away. Millions will, in India, when you act.

I actually just don't want them to have any power internationally - I don't care how corrupt they are and how much they **** up Indian cricket. I'd support anyone who lives in India to do it though. Your point is that one cannot criticize an organization unless they are willing to actually physically go there and start banging on doors for it? So next time anyone critisizes a team, a player, an umpire, the NCAA, a politician, or a policy, it's all obviously irrelevant because they aren't outside picketing.

That's what the defense of BCCI has become now? Well, it's nontransparent but it's a degree, just happens to be much worse than other western boards, so therefore it's OK because....well it is.

 

[jeevan]

So since organization A is not perfect, that automatically excuses organization B because it's doing the same thing but to a much bigger degree? So unless ECB has never done a single wrong thing in its history, BCCI can do whatever they want and they'll be on equal footing?

Umm, never made that argument, myself. You're either confusing me with someone else or trying to create a bogeyman. BCCI has warts, many of them. But once in a while they do things that are net positive (certainly for their audience, e.g. IPL).

So too, imho, in this case. They cast their vote in stopping the evolution of the ICC presidency going from bad (a non-controversial politician with nominally appropriate resume in cricket administration) to worse (a controversial politician who no resume in this particular field).

* Controversial, of course, in this case strictly in the context of member countries of the ICC.

 

[jeevan]

I actually just don't want them to have any power internationally - I don't care how corrupt they are and how much they **** up Indian cricket. I'd support anyone who lives in India to do it though. Your point is that one cannot criticize an organization unless they are willing to actually physically go there and start banging on doors for it? So next time anyone critisizes a team, a player, an umpire, the NCAA, a politician, or a policy, it's all obviously irrelevant because they aren't outside picketing.

That's what the defense of BCCI has become now? Well, it's nontransparent but it's a degree, just happens to be much worse than other western boards, so therefore it's OK because....well it is.

Nope, not into generalizations myself. Just in this particular case - you are so extra-passionate about BCCI's failings and bring them, in an irrelevant manner, front and center into a discussion on a vote on an ICC candidate. That type of passion needs to be matched with action, or it is just empty talk. Empty talk is fine too, but needs to be recognized for what it is.

BCCI accounts for 70% of cricket revenues or something like that. It's ludicrous for you to want them to have no role in shaping world cricket, not even a vote in 10?. It's an entertainment business, has become one the the last 5-10 years certainly.

 

[jeevan]

That's what the defense of BCCI has become now? Well, it's nontransparent but it's a degree, just happens to be much worse than other western boards, so therefore it's OK because....well it is.

I'm merely correcting your statement of BCCI having zero transparency, not mounting any across the board defense of the BCCI.

Appreciating one particular action of the BCCI isn't the same as giving them an internet carte blanche. I.e. I'm playing the ball not the bowler.