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Will K.P ever be an all-time great?

T

tooextracool

International Coach
social said:
When?

BTW, Warne and McGath retired 18 months later - are you seriously trying to suggest that 2005 was their peak? :laugh::laugh::laugh:
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There is no way in hell Warne circa 97/98 was better than Warne 2004/05. Get your facts straight.

I agree with you regarding K.P. but Warne in 2005 more than made up for his inability to bowl the googly, flipper and the big leg spinner (that he could in his earlier days) with the ability to turn each ball to different extents, the slider, and having complete mastery over things like drift and flight which he never had before.
 
Sir Alex

Sir Alex

Banned
social said:
Oh please

He's scored runs off an old Warne and a geriatric and/or crocked McGrath

However, KP made his name at the Oval when Warne dropped a sitter off him on 0 and he's never come close to scaling the same heights again
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:laugh: Two elderly gentlemen who were game enough to win the Ashes 5-0.

Social, it's pathetic when you've to go to 'such' extents just to get your point across.

Btw, except from his Ashes heroics, he hasn't done much for me. Perhaps it's his record in the subcontinent. But if anything, he might have turned that corner with his recent tour of Ban. He got to kick on asap or it would be too late.

Let's be specific. He has got 6 tests this season followed by 5 down under. If he doesn't average something in the sixties, and scored a bit over a thousand runs in the period before WC, I can't see it happening ever frankly.
 
T

tooextracool

International Coach
With regards to KP, lets be honest here. Almost every player who plays 50+ odd test matches ends up hitting a purple patch at some point during their careers. Even marginally above average players like Mohammed Yousuf and Makhaya Ntini had purple patches where they flayed almost every team that were presented to them before eventually returning to the mediocrity that was the rest of their careers. Collingwood just hit his. There is no doubt in my mind that all 3 of these players' careers are now looked upon more favorably with hindsight than they would have before they hit their respective patches or had they not hit them at all.

KP is a bit different. There's no doubt that when you exclude purple patches KP is better than all 3. I'm going to wait until he hits his purple patch before I make that judgment. Either way, I don't think he will ever match up with the Tendulkars, Dravids and Kallis' of this world.
 
Stapel

Stapel

International Regular
Pffff, Warne in 2005 was Warne at his peak..........

Anyway, Pietersen is not at par with the real greats. He might get there in Aus though.
 
Migara

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
Unless he performs under every condition admirably he's not going to be regarded as a great.
 
wfdu_ben91

wfdu_ben91

International 12th Man
social said:
Oh please

He's scored runs off an old Warne and a geriatric and/or crocked McGrath

However, KP made his name at the Oval when Warne dropped a sitter off him on 0 and he's never come close to scaling the same heights again
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Warne took 40 wickets in 2005 and McGrath won player of the World Cup just fewer months after the World Cup. Remember Lords 2005 when Pietersen came in at 5-21 in the middle of one of McGrath's best ever bowling spells and ended up smashing him around on debut?

McGrath & Warne could've gone on for another few years if they really wanted, but didn't because it would've tarnished their legacy. Age didn't deteroriate either bowler - that's what made them so great. If McGrath and Warne had've gone on post 2007 then they would've been considered "past their best"; they retired at the perfect time. Clark was also a class above in the 06/07 Ashes, FTR.

Pietersen did what no other batsman could do and that's succeed frequently against both McGrath and Warne. Many may have dominated Warne at a stage or two, but no other batsman did so against both McGrath and Warne.
 
T

Thirdman1

Banned
wfdu_ben91 said:
Pietersen did what no other batsman could do and that's succeed frequently against both McGrath and Warne. Many may have dominated Warne at a stage or two, but no other batsman did so against both McGrath and Warne.
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Sehwag reduced Mcgrath into an ordinary bowler. Mcgrath did not have the courage to look into the eyes of Sehwag.
 
vcs

vcs

Request Your Custom Title Now!
wfdu_ben91 said:
Warne took 40 wickets in 2005 and McGrath won player of the World Cup just fewer months after the World Cup. Remember Lords 2005 when Pietersen came in at 5-21 in the middle of one of McGrath's best ever bowling spells and ended up smashing him around on debut?

McGrath & Warne could've gone on for another few years if they really wanted, but didn't because it would've tarnished their legacy. Age didn't deteroriate either bowler - that's what made them so great. If McGrath and Warne had've gone on post 2007 then they would've been considered "past their best"; they retired at the perfect time. Clark was also a class above in the 06/07 Ashes, FTR.

Pietersen did what no other batsman could do and that's succeed frequently against both McGrath and Warne. Many may have dominated Warne at a stage or two, but no other batsman did so against both McGrath and Warne.
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As good as Pietersen was in those two Ashes series - and he was comfortably England's best batsman - I wouldn't call what he did "domination". I'd reserve that term for Tendulkar's displays against Warne in '98-'99. Pietersen played some great innings, but also lost his wicket at some crucial junctures, particularly to Warne, who was able to induce false strokes out of him.
 
Xuhaib

Xuhaib

International Coach
vcs said:
As good as Pietersen was in those two Ashes series - and he was comfortably England's best batsman - I wouldn't call what he did "domination". I'd reserve that term for Tendulkar's displays against Warne in '98-'99. Pietersen played some great innings, but also lost his wicket at some crucial junctures, particularly to Warne, who was able to induce false strokes out of him.
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this.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
Thirdman1 said:
url=http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/221337.html]3rd ODI: Australia v ICC World XI at Melbourne (Docklands), Oct 9, 2005 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com[/url]
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Yes, where he absolutely mauled him (and the other bowlers) for a staggering 37 runs, giving McGrath the awful figures of 1 for 26 at 4.3 - mind you the match was over in the 28th over anyway, so...
 
T

Thirdman1

Banned
Spark said:
Yes, where he absolutely mauled him (and the other bowlers) for a staggering 37 runs, giving McGrath the awful figures of 1 for 26 at 4.3 - mind you the match was over in the 28th over anyway, so...
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I knew it was coming. Sehwag scored 20 of those.

3rd ODI: Australia v ICC World XI at Melbourne (Docklands), Oct 9, 2005 | Cricket Player v player | Cricinfo.com

Mcgrath was removed from bowling after 3 overs. He was brought back when Sehwag was dismissed. So if bowler like Mcgrath is removed after 3 over. Then captain has no faith in his ability
 
marc71178

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
How come McGrath was taken off after 3 overs and only brought back after Sehwag was dismissed, yet he bowled 21 balls to Sehwag?

20 off 21 balls is far from domination.
 
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