Round table revisited, Lara the best batsmen of modern era

[satyam]

As for your claim that Sehwag is the best player of spin.... its completely and utterly Absurd, Tendulkar is a better player of spin overall than Sehwag is and Lara is by most accounts if not all a better player of spin bowling than Tendulkar.

I dont even want to get into such a ridiculous argument anyway... Sehwag a better player of spin than Lara... wow

Lol ask sachin himself. Sehwag plays spin better than anybody and he doesn't score runs he destroys them. I also don't want to get into ridiculous argument. Sehwag was the only Indian batsman to destroy Mendis at his peak. It is due to him only SL didn't play Mendis in India. And it is not about praising Indian batsman. Many indian batsmen have
destroyed Murali and Warne.
The strike rate is all there to see. I have not seen a better destroyer of spin bowler than sehwag.

 

[Sir Alex]

Only if he retires tomorrow, I reckon. Lara and Sachin (even Hayden) had a similar down period at similar ages and then both had a late form surge, as have many players who don't have any obvious physical impediment. I've been saying it for a couple of months now but I reckon Ponting has finally worked his way through the rough patch which has lasted him since around '07. Just looking at the way he's batting right now, footwork, timing, balance, etc. I reckon he's due for a big run in the next year or so. England watch out.

To be honest, that's exactly why I don't think this has been a temporary blip. He really have never looked terrible, or bogged down in the last 3 years, but just is unable to score the big runs. Usually when batsmen hit a trough, they tend to scratch, fend, play and miss, have consistent run of single digit scores, be complete failures in multiple series etc. With Punter this hasn't been the case. He has been scoring the odd 50 or 100 looking exactly like in his prime. But the gaps between such innings have been widening.

I think his reflexes, judgement and temperament have irreversibly declined. The slew of run outs in the last 18 months is a good indicator.

 

[Sir Alex]

Yeah awesome

Sehwag mostly dominated Murali when he was struggling for form against all batsmen let alone Sehwag.

Do me a favor, go ask Murali himself who is the most difficult and brilliant batsmen Murali has ever bowled to..

Stats and strike rates do not do justice to Laras ability to play spin above and beyond all other greats of the game. Period.

Lara is the greatest player of spin bowling the world has ever seen, apart from Bradman who I cant speak for.

Lara > Sehwag as a player of spin on all accounts.

Also he demolished Saqlain who has a shadow of himself on his first comeback match after years if I can remember correctly on the flattest of wickets.

Also you are wrong about Mendis, Mendis was figured out by Pakistan of all teams after he ran through India. Mendis was out of form and surely Sehwag played a role in him not playing but definitely was not the front running factor for his dropping.

Yes. Whenever Sehwag scored, wickets were flat and bowlers out of form.

 

[mohammad16]

Yes. Whenever Sehwag scored, wickets were flat and bowlers out of form.

Most of his runs have been on flat tracks, but hey thats just cricket in the past decade.... Quality of bowling and pitches have played quite a significant part in his success and somewhat negated his flaws. He is a still a tremendous player no doubt. a very rare talent.

But he does not belong in the same discussion as Lara.

Better player of spin than Lara lmao... you kidding me?

 

[satyam]

Most of his runs have been on flat tracks, but hey thats just cricket in the past decade.... He is a tremendous player no doubt.

But he does not belong in the same discussion as Lara.

What is the average of lara outside WI?47
Average in Australia?41

You must have enjoyed his 600 ball 400 runs on the flattest wickets in the world and 375 again on same wicket and same team. Then another 277 at SCG the flattest cricket ground where sachin averages 100.All resulted in a boring draw. 2 of 3 sehwag's big innings has resulted in an innings victory.

Agreed sehwag does not belong in same discussion as lara. In about half of the innings he has played against major teams ,sehwag has 13 150+scores(lara has 18) 6 200+scores(lara has 9) 4 250+scores(lara has 3).So clearly there is no comparison.
Sehwag has 3 century against steyn compared to lara's 0 against Donald.

 

[mohammad16]

What is the average of lara outside WI?47
Average in Australia?41

You must have enjoyed his 600 ball 400 runs on the flattest wickets in the world and 375 again on same wicket and same team. Then another 277 at SCG the flattest cricket ground where sachin averages 100.All resulted in a boring draw. 2 of 3 sehwag's big innings has resulted in an innings victory.

Agreed sehwag does not belong in same discussion as lara. In about half of the innings he has played against major teams ,sehwag has 13 150+scores(lara has 18) 6 200+scores(lara has 9) 4 250+scores(lara has 3).So clearly there is no comparison.
Sehwag has 3 century against steyn compared to lara's 0 against Donald.

??? you do realize Lara's 400 was a masterclass that was almost chance less...

how chance less have sehwags 200s and 300s been? How many dropped catches???

You cant compare Sehwag to Lara as Sehwag was not exposed to the conditions and the quality of bowlers as consistently as Lara was throughout the 90s.

Lara's credentials are ridiculous with a 500 at first class county level to boot.

And oh one more thing which seems to hold a lot more weight than mere statistics.. 99% of the players and fans of cricket alike would tell you that Sehwag is not in the League of a player like Lara, spin or otherwise, but DEFINITELY not spin.

Viv Richards facing the same attacks as Sehwag with the pitch conditions, shortened boundaries and lightning quick outfields would have averaged 10 more at least easily if he played now. And Lara as a test bat is certain comparable if not better than Viv.

So please just stop with the Sehwag Lara comparisons.

 

[satyam]

All of lara's 3 biggest innings have resulted in a dull boring draw. 2 of 3 sehwag's biggest innings have resulted in an innings victory for India(at multan and mumbai).So that means lara cashed on weaker attacks and flat wickets

Sehwag would have destroyed even an inform saqlain. Stop making execuse. Pakistan not only figured out mendis, they figured out even murali ,warne and kumble on the flat tracks of faisalabad.

See the list of host country by 300+scores.
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

India only has 1. Even on the flat wickets of multan he played so fast that it resulted in an innings victory. Something lara could never do.Who is going to be the next triple century maker on faisalabad,lahore and karachi. Umar akmal.

 

[satyam]

??? you do realize Lara's 400 was a masterclass that was almost chance less...

how chance less have sehwags 200s and 300s been? How many dropped catches???

You cant compare Sehwag to Lara as Sehwag was not exposed to the conditions and the quality of bowlers as consistently as Lara was throughout the 90s.

Lara's credentials are ridiculous with a 500 at first class county level to boot.

And oh one more thing which seems to hold a lot more weight than mere statistics.. 99% of the players and fans of cricket alike would tell you that Sehwag is not in the League of a player like Lara, spin or otherwise, but DEFINITELY not spin.

Sehwag's 319 against SA was chanceless came only of 291 balls not 600 balls .So was his 201* against Sl. I can remember many times lara being dropped by healy or waugh against Australia. Otherwise his average would have been even dropped to 30 from 41 in Australia.How many century lara scored against Donald?0
In India?0
Against Wasim and Waqar ?0
Against Bond?0
Sehwag has 4 man of the series in 69 tests against major teams lara has 3 in 131 tests. There is no comparison.

 

[mohammad16]

All of lara's 3 biggest innings have resulted in a dull boring draw. 2 of 3 sehwag's biggest innings have resulted in an innings victory for India(at multan and mumbai).So that means lara cashed on weaker attacks and flat wickets

Sehwag would have destroyed even an inform saqlain. Stop making execuse. Pakistan not only figured out mendis, they figured out even murali ,warne and kumble on the flat tracks of faisalabad.

See the list of host country by 300+scores.
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

India only has 1. Even on the flat wickets of multan he played so fast that it resulted in an innings victory. Something lara could never do.Who is going to be the next triple century maker on faisalabad,lahore and karachi. Umar akmal.

lmao what does Faisalabad have to do with Pakistan figuring out Mendis, have you been keeping up with cricket over the past year?

Mendis was a mystery world over, yet Pakistan was the first team to face him in Srilanka and nullify his threat and also in subsequent ICC tournaments and ODI series all held outside Pakistan ofcourse due to the politics. He was running through other sides while Pakistanis were playing him pretty comfortably, since then he has lost a lot of form and most teams have gotten a hold of him.

 

[satyam]

lmao what does Faisalabad have to do with Pakistan figuring out Mendis, have you been keeping up with cricket over the past year?

Mendis was a mystery world over, yet Pakistan was the first team to face him in Srilanka and nullify his threat and also in subsequent ICC tournaments and ODI series all held outside Pakistan ofcourse due to the politics. He was running through other sides while Pakistanis were playing him pretty comfortably, since then he has lost a lot of form and most teams have gotten a hold of him.

They figured out mendis and were destroyed by herath

Did you watch how India treated rangana herath with disdain.?

 

[mohammad16]

They figured out mendis and were destroyed by herath

Did you watch how India treated rangana herath with disdain.?

What does that have to do with anything? Mendis destroyed India too, embarassed them infact... but that doesnt have anything to do with anything on this thread. Anyhow Im out. Peace.

 

[satyam]

What does that have to do with anything? Mendis destroyed India too, embarassed them infact... but that doesnt have anything to do with anything on this thread. Anyhow Im out. Peace.

How was it more embarassing when Pak lost both test and ODI seies in SL and lost an odi series to them at home too.Pakistan did not win a single test at that tour. India won 1 test.
And won the odi series and then defeated them in 4 consecutive odi series.Peace.

 

[satyam]

??? you do realize Lara's 400 was a masterclass that was almost chance less...

how chance less have sehwags 200s and 300s been? How many dropped catches???

You cant compare Sehwag to Lara as Sehwag was not exposed to the conditions and the quality of bowlers as consistently as Lara was throughout the 90s.

Lara's credentials are ridiculous with a 500 at first class county level to boot.

And oh one more thing which seems to hold a lot more weight than mere statistics.. 99% of the players and fans of cricket alike would tell you that Sehwag is not in the League of a player like Lara, spin or otherwise, but DEFINITELY not spin.

Viv Richards facing the same attacks as Sehwag with the pitch conditions, shortened boundaries and lightning quick outfields would have averaged 10 more at least easily if he played now. And Lara as a test bat is certain comparable if not better than Viv.

So please just stop with the Sehwag Lara comparisons.

Sehwag's 319 against SA was chanceless came only of 291 balls not 600 balls .So was his 201* against Sl. I can remember many times lara being dropped by healy or waugh against Australia. Otherwise his average would have been even dropped to 30 from 41 in Australia.How many century lara scored against Donald?0
In India?0
Against Wasim and Waqar ?0
Against Bond?0
Sehwag has 4 man of the series in 69 tests against major teams lara has 3 in 131 tests. There is no comparison.

 

[zaremba]

Satyam, I can't guarantee it, but you might be taken a little more seriously if you don't use a laughing smiley at the end of each sentence.

 

[satyam]

Satyam, I can't guarantee it, but you might be taken a little more seriously if you don't use a laughing smiley at the end of each sentence.

Well it is upto people to decide whether they take me seriously or not. I have showed them the true face of their beloved lara.

Lara can be described as
1.great player of spin bowling
2.Average against quality pace bowling.
3. Excellent against medium pacers
4. Scored heavily on flat tracks but slowly resulting in a draw.

It is my opinion though.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

If you combine Sehwag's stats in South Africa and New Zealand (the 2 most bowler friendly conditions during the time that Sehwag has played) as a top-order batsman then Sehwag averages 15 from 13 innings, with no half-centuries. He also has a higher strike-rate in those countries, which pretty much evaluates the fact that if Sehwag didn't play on flat subcontient pitches for 75-80% of his career then he'd be a mortal batsman averaging low 40's.

No way is he close to Brian Lara. Matthew Hayden would be a much better and closer comparison to Lara.

 

[satyam]

Viv Richards facing the same attacks as Sehwag with the pitch conditions, shortened boundaries and lightning quick outfields would have averaged 10 more at least easily if he played now. And Lara as a test bat is certain comparable if not better than Viv.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Viv richards would have averaged 10 less than sehwag. We all know his performance against quality spin bowling.

Viv Richards had a strike rate of 68 in test,sehwag has 83. And regarding shorter boundaries
most of the WI boundaries have a length compared to an oversized car garrage. Sehwag would have averaged 60 against those bowlers and at a far better strike rate.

 

[Ikki]

Sachin could average 70 for three more years and you'll always rate Lara better than him?

Can only truly judge when both careers are over. It's not as if Sachin's career stopped when Lara retired. You compare career vs. career.

At the end of Sachin's career one can say Lara was the better player. You may think that at this point in time Lara is. But saying "I'll never rate" just points out that its an unchangeable opinion based on bias.

I certainly agree. But for Sachin's recent turn to form I would have rated Lara ahead of him. At his best, I think Lara was the best of the trio. He was flamboyant but also had a gargantuan thirst for run-scoring that you'd normally associate with a dollars and cents player. On the other hand, Sachin tended to be more consistent hitting highs throughout his career, even if he never looked as imperious as Lara IMO. Of the 3 though, I rate Ponting ahead and slightly so. For me, he is somewhere in between. He is flamboyant in his own way, but has a consistency in his batting that helps him put up big numbers very regularly. It's epitomised by the way he so effectively turns his backlift from a cover drive, to a cut or to a pull depending on the ball. I generally wasn't a fan of watching Ponting bat but for some reason really like it in the last few years. I appreciate it's effectiveness.

Was looking at Lara's numbers but can't explain why he has so few not-outs in comparison to the others. Lara made a lot of runs, if he had a figure near the amount of not-outs as the other two (with respect to proportion of innings played) he'd have an average in the high 50s I believe.

 

[satyam]

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

If you combine Sehwag's stats in South Africa and New Zealand (the 2 most bowler friendly conditions during the time that Sehwag has played) as a top-order batsman then Sehwag averages 15 from 13 innings, with no half-centuries. He also has a higher strike-rate in those countries, which pretty much evaluates the fact that if Sehwag didn't play on flat subcontient pitches for 75-80% of his career then he'd be a mortal batsman averaging low 40's.

No way is he close to Brian Lara. Matthew Hayden would be a much better and closer comparison.

What is the average of lara in India, NZ and Australia?

Average of flat track bully hayden outside Australia?42

Hayden was a flat track bully at best. What is his average in SL,Eng,Nz

Hayden highest score is also against ZIMBAWE. Good

 

[Ikki]

Ponting's best performances in the 90s were against the best bowling attacks of the 1990s (averaged 63 vs Pakistan, 50 vs South Africa and 40 against Windies). It was only his performances against the weaker teams which brought his average down. (He averaged under 40 vs England, India, New Zealand and Zimbabwe). Nevertheless, averaging 45 in your early 20's in what was arguably the strongest decade as far as bowlers go, is no mean feat. Albeit, he did bat 5-6 which takes some credit away, but considering he was in his early 20's during the 90's and averaged mid 40's, suggest that his stats of the 00's are no fluke.

This. But Ponting was shuffled around in the 90s. He averaged 50 as a #6 IIRC.