• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Richards v Tendulkar - ODIs

Who is the best ODI batsman of all time?


  • Total voters
    91

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Thanks SJS. Knew Saram was an average test class cricketer, but now only realized he was bit better than average. You may be ahve plenty to say about Sathasivam as well.
Sathasivam was. according to many, an even better batsman than De Saram. However, unlike De Saram (3 years his senior), Satha (as he was known to cricketers and friends) did not get the early opportunities to play first class cricket and his first game at the top level was only in November 1944, in the Pentangular in India. Satha was in his 30th year.

He played only 10 more first class games, four of them in 1950, when he was clearly past his prime though he still managed the odd great innings as against the Commonwealth side in February 1950 and against a full strength Pakistan side next month in his last first class game.

So the data available on him is limited but, as I said earlier, by all accounts he was a devastating batsman who was unlucky to be born in a time and place that did not allow for many opportunities to display his obvious gifts and skils.

Ghulam Ahmed, Indian captain, off spinner, selector and cricket administrator of great repute is quoted by Rajan Bala in his book as saying ....
"I have bowled at Bradman, Harvey, Hutton, Dennis Compton, Keith Miller, The Terrible W’s -Weekes, Worrel and Walcott. If you ask me a question, who is the most difficult batsman that I have ever bowled, I will mention a name that some times you will not know. He is M. Sathasivam of Ceylon. I will never forget how he thrashed me in Chennai."​
However reluctant we are today to consider bracketting Satha with the great names in that short list Ghulam Ahmed mentions, there is no doubt that he must have been some batsman to deserve such high praise from a highly respected cricketer. More importantly, Ghulam said this many decades after the event and not in the flush of a recent "thrashing".

So lets try and track his limited career.
  • Nov. 1944 - Brabourne Stadium Bombay
  • For Rest versus Muslims
  • Pentangular Semi Finals
The Muslims had a very strong side which included as many as eight current and future Test players of India and Pakistan viz. Mushtaq Ali, Amir Ilahi, Gul Mohammad, Ibrahim, Ghazali, Abdul Hafeez, Nazar Mohammad and ES Maka.

The Rest had lost three wickets for 60 odd when the debutant joined his skipper, the great Vijay Hazare, at the crease. They put on 171 runs for the fifth wicket of which the brilliant Ceylonese batsman scored 101 to top score for his side.

He scored a duck in the second innings to have a FC average of 50.5 at the end of his first game.​

In his second FC game, Satha faced another set of fine cricketers. English Test stars Compton and Hardstaff were accompanied by Indian current and future Test players in Hindlekar, Chandu Sarwate, PK Sen and Nirode Chowdhary.
  • Jan 1945 - Eden Gardens Calcutta
  • For the Bengal Governor's XI v Major-General Stewart's XII
  • First Class Match
Amarnath and CS Nayudud ran through the opposition for 136 but his side was in serious strife once again at 55 for 3 when Satha once again joined his skipper, another legendary Indian batsman, Babasaheb Nimbalker (who was to score a quadruple century four years later). They put on 99 runs together before Satha was out for 56. He did not bat in the second innings of the drawn game.​

At the end of his second FC game he had an average of 52.3 in 3 innings with a century and a fifty.

Three months later, in his 3rd FC game, Satha got to play the equivalent of today's Test matches.
  • April 1945 - P Saravanamuttu Stadium, Colombo
  • For Ceylon versus India
  • FC Match (International)
Ten of the Indian eleven for the match are Test players and read like a Who's Who of Indian greats with Merchant, Mankad, Hazare, Amarnath, Mushtaq Ali and Rusi Modi. All the five bowlers who faced Ceylon were India bowlers. It was a Test in every sense of the word and the Ceylonese side failed at the first hurdle. They were bowled out for 107 Mankad taking 8 for 35. Satha managed ten on what I would like to call his international debut.

After restricting the Indian lead to 72, the Celonese were again in trouble losing the two for 16 when Satha joined opener de Soysa. They took the score to 50 when Soysa fell for 18. Two more batsmen fell scoring just 12 between them before Satha in the company of the lower order took Ceylon to the safety of a draw. He had scored 111 (out of 225) in a match in which no other batsman from either side managed a to touch fifty.
At the end of his 3rd FC game he now had 278 runs in 5 innings and his average hadn't once dropped below fifty.

In his first international he had scored a century on debut as he had in his first FC game.

Earlier that year, Satha had played in another 3 day game with players of real pedigree. I suspect if the names of the sides were something like those of his second FC game, this one too would have been classified as first class. Surely the strength of the opposing sides would suggest that. Another issue could have been that it was a 12 a side match. :)
  • Jan 1945 - Calcutta
  • For JN Basu's XI v CK Nayudu's XI
  • NOT first Class
Batting first Satha's side piled up 437. The stars were two Ceylonese, Satha and another of his talented countrymen, Sargo Jayawickreme. Satha scored 80 and Sargo 123 against an attack that included Chandu Sarwate, the Nayudu brothers and Nimbalkar. CS took 8 wickets in the innings.

With a lead of over a 100, Basu XI were looking to consolidate but CS Nayudu took another 168. Satha top scored with 42.

The strong Nayudu side won the match by ten wickets and then batted on for the pleasure of the crowd I suppose :-)
  • Dec 1945 - P Saravanamuttu Stadium, Colombo
  • For Ceylon v Australian Services
  • FC Match
Hassett led Australian Services side toured India and Ceylon. They turned out to be too strong for the Ceylones, bundling them out for 103 and 159 to win by an innings. Miller scored a hundred in his side's only knock.

Ceylon's star batsmen all failed to get going.
  • De Saram 3 and 23
  • Satha 10 and 4
  • Jayawickreme 31 and 23
It was Satha's first failure with the bat in both innings. He now had 292 runs in 7 innings and his FC average was now 41.7.

It was to be more than a year before he would play another FC game.
  • Feb 1947 - Chepauk Madras
  • For Ceylon CA vs Southern India
  • FC Match
South India's opening bowler was MJ Gopalan (after whom the Gopalan Trophy between Tamil Nadu and Sri Lanka is named) who was already played a Test for India in the inaugural home series in 1933-34. He did not play more because of the presence of Nissar and Amar Singh.

His bowling partner was Rangachari, genuinely fast and to play 4 Tests for India. The off spinner was Ghulam Ahmed who played 22 Tests for India and who was quoted at the start of this post. So the attack was a very good one that faced the Ceylon Cricket Association on Chepauk's pacy wicket.

Ranga clean bowled one of the openers at 4 and then De Saram (42) put on 119 with Salih before the former was run out. From 227, when he came to the crease, he and Salih took the score to 369 before Salih fell for 98. Of the 104 runs they had put on, Satha had scored almost 80 !

Then with Jayawickreme (52) he put on another 142 runs before the former fell with the total at 369. Then after another wicket fell cheaply, he put on 106 for the sixth wicket. Then he fell for a magnificent 212 !


Southern India were completely demoralised by the onslaught (Ghulam's words are a clear indication of that) and they collapsed in both innings to lose the match by innings and plenty.​
Satha now had 504 runs in just 8 FC innings and these included scores three centuries, including a double hundred with an average of 63.0. He was now in his 33rd year. and this was to be his only first class game for the season !
  • April 1948 - P Saravanamuttu Stadium, Colombo
  • For Ceylon CA vs Holkar
  • First Class Match
This was only his second FC game in two years. Against the strong Holkar side The home side more than held their own. Satha was run out for 11 in thier only innings. The low scoring game was drawn.​

Satha now had 515 in ten FC innings.

It was again to be another year before he played another first class game. This time against the visiting West Indians touring India, Pakistan and Ceylon. The touring side was a powerful one and included really big names. Have a look
  • George Headley
  • Everton Weekes
  • Clyde Walcott
  • Bob Christiani
  • John Goddard
  • Gerry Gomez
  • Alan Rae
  • Jeff Stollmeyer
  • Dennis Atkinson
  • Prior Jones
Besides the above they had Ferguson, Carew, Cameron and Trim. Each and everyone of the 14 was a West Indian Test player.

The West Indies side played two first class games against Ceylon - 3 day affairs styled Ceylon versus West Indies. The Ceylonese lost the first game by an innings although they put up a decent second innings score after being bundled out for 122 in the first. Satha wasn't in the side. De Saram was but failed in both innings.

Satha came in for the second game. He was now in his 35th year and his last four FC games (including this one) were spread over four years !
  • Feb 1949 - P Saravanamuttu Stadium, Colombo
  • Ceylon v West Indians
  • FC Match (International)
Guyanese fast bowler trim dismissed the first two batsmen with just 16 on the scoreboard when Satha joined De Saram. They put on 52 of which Satha scored 32 before he was caught off Trim. De Saram went on to top score with 94. Jayawickreme also back in the side, scored 29. After a huge West Indies innings, Ceylon managed to hold out for a draw thanks to a fifty by Jayawickreme. Satha got 12 and De Saram 13.​

Age was catching up with him and the limited opportunities of playing top class cricket wasn't of great help either. He now had 559 in 12 FC innings at 46.6.

Frank Worrell was not able to come to India etc on that tour with the West Indies but he was to lead a Commonwealth side to the region next year. Satha got his opportunity to play against the great Worrell and his band of merry and serious cricketers from the Commonwealth. Of course he was now in his 36th year and this was his fifth Fc game in a row that was separated from the previous one by a full year ! This also turned out to be his last FC season. Fortunately he got to play four FC games in this season. A bit late for him to get more than one game per season. The last time he had been able to play more than one was in the year of his FC debut !!

It was a fairly decent side in which besides Worrell there was Holt from the West Indian Test side, George Pope, Norman Oldfield and Winston Place from England's Test ranks and Tribe and Freer from Australia's. As I said a decent side with professional and first class cricketers like Bill Alley, Wally Langdon and Jock Livingstone providing strength even though they never played for their country sides.

Feb 1950 - P Saravanamuttu Stadium, Colombo
For Ceylon v Commonwealth XI
FC Match

Everyone in Worrell's side made contributions as they declared at 355 for 5. Ceylon lost their customary early wicket, FJ De Saram for a duck, and Satha walked in, this time at number three. Ceylonese wickets continued to fall to Freer Lambert and Pope while Satha watched from the other end. Its interesting to see what these batsmen scored. Have a look...

Code:
[B]Batsman		Score[/B]
Salih		1
de Saram	0
Rodrigo		0
Gunasekera	9
Coomaraswamy	11
Burton		9
Wijesinha	7
Jayasinghe	17
Navaratane	0
de Zoysa	0*
There were 3 extras besides. It is not known when Satha got out but it must have been towards the end of the innings. He did not get a hundred but the 98 he scored out of 153 was better than most hundreds one would imagine.

Ceylon collapsed for an even lower score in the second knock to lose by innings. There was no repeat for Satha as he scored 22 in the second innings.​

He now averaged 48.5 with 679 runs in just 14 FC innings in just 8 games spread over six seasons. I have absolutely no doubt that had he played more regularly in his youth he would have scored big runs. It is amazing how these cricketers kept up the passion with so few opportunities.

Satha played three more first class games in this last season of his.

First came the game against the same Commonwealth side, this time for a combined India, Pakistan, Ceylon side. In a rain affected low scoring draw satha scored 1 in the Combined side's only innings of 75 all out. The side was really not representative of the Sub continent with eight of the eleven being Ceylonese.

Then came his only tour to a country other than India when he went to Pakistan in what was Ceylon's first ever tour of the new nation of Pakistan.

After a double falure against Sind (3 and 4) Satha played in the first international game between Ceylon and Pakistan at Lahore.

25th Mar 1950 - Bagh-e-Jinnah Lahore
For Ceylon vs Pakistan
4 day FC match (International)

Pakistan played a strong side with Test players...
  • Nazar Mohammad(Pakistani Test opener and father of Muddassar Nazar)
  • Imtiaz Ahmed (Pakistani wicketkeeper-batsman and future Test captain)
  • Maqsood Ahmed(Pafistani Test batsman)
  • Fazal Mehmood (great medium pacer and future Test captain)
  • Khan Mohammad (Pakistani Test fast bowler of repute)
After scoring an impressive 362 in the first innings Pakistan bundled out Ceylon for 166. Satha scored just 6. 19 year old Stanley Jayasinghe top scored with 34 batting at number eight.

Following on Ceylon lost four wickets for 43 when young Jayasinghe jined Satha in the latter's last FC innings. The veteran and the youngster put on 69 runs before Satha was out for 56. Jayasinghe was run out for 33 and Ceylon lost by an innings.​

That was the last time Satha played in a FC game.
 

NYLove78

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Dream on. i have proved it with stats that SL pitches are the worst to bat on, especially for touring batsmen. You can hold on to yuor thin arguments

Now this is intellectual dishonesty at highest order. SL of 90 - 00 should be compared to AUS, SAF etc of 90 - 00, not to 70 - 80. We universally agree that global averages of 80 - 90 is about 1 run less than 90-00 era.

In 90 - 00 era, still SL was the toughest place to bat, and still it is in the 00 - 10 era. Would have been the same in 70s and 80s too.

Wrong. In Every country the average was lesser in 70s and 80s. What would be better is to take the deviation from global norm. I would say BAN of 00s may take that title.

Codswallop. In Richards time, in every country the average was lower, and it was the norm for the era, because the game was not developed. As I mentioned earlier, the deviation is the important factor.
Am back after a long time and thought it would be appropriate to start by replying to my brother here.

Haha. I missed this post of yours. It was you who resorted to stats - those stats that showed SL being a tougher place to bat in than AUS and NZ and now you are backtracking on the same.

Btw I would rather dream of the blue-eyed blond teenaged German Yvonne who asked me out to the beach in my very first year as a Grad student in Long Island; or of the beautiful Spanish Nieves from Madrid who swooned over me all that night when in the library; or still better my American beau who is good too.

In any case I don't dream cricket and least of all something like what is so obviously a fact as illustrated by the rest of my post.

FACT is - Aus & NZ pitches/conditions in the 70s and 80s >> SL pitches/conditions in the 70s and 80s.

Double '>' I write as - 1) SL were probably the weakest batting line-up (at least on paper) in the 70s/80s though IMO they had better individuals than most of the SL guys in the 90s/00s. And almost every match played in SL had these batsmen's statistics included while OTOH the matches in Aus and NZ had much more prolific guys included in them (Richards, Chappell brothers, Gavaskar, Greenidge etc). 2) They are over a much larger span (some 18 years as against 8) and many more matches (a few times more).
 

NYLove78

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
And keeps dead silent about much better spin attacks that SRT faced.
Yeah four-pronged spin attacks on the flat batting tracks of the 90s/00s. You are the one who is dreaming. Richards would be scoring 1000 runs a innings.

You heard of Lillee/Thomson/Pascoe/Gilmour/Walker/Hogg/Hurst/Dymock etc from Aus?

Snow/Willis/Ward/Old/Hendrick/Selvey/Botham/Dilley etc from Eng?

Those from India, Pakistan etc also had the small matter of facing in addition Roberts/Garner/Holding/Marshall/Croft/Clarke/Daniels/Patterson etc from the WI.

I would prefer to face Vaas and Murali on benign tracks covered like a medieval knight with a ton of rules to cripple them (as in the 90s/00s) rather than those four-prongs from above and others like Imran, Hadlee, Nawaz or even Kapil on those road-like tracks of the 70s/80s without even a helmet when they could come 6 (or 8) times at my head.

Richards in addition to all those above also combated Peter Pollock, Procter, Vincent Van der Bijl and LeRoux in the Packer Series and averaged over 100 at a point and made greats like Barry Richards and Greg Chappell look pedestrian.
 

NYLove78

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Ha Ha! Did Thommo ever hit the side screen on full in India or Pakistan? DO you get my point? And Akthar is not the fastest that Tendulkar faced. There were one or two Pakistanis who were still quicker, and possibly the quickest bowlers in the history.
I have watched all the quickest bowlers of the 90s/00s and NOBODY has come EVEN close to hitting the SS on the full in Aus and SA as well (Shoaib, Lee etc have all played many times there).

I watched Dr Frank Pyke did say that Thomson and a few others as well from the 70s would have hit over 100 mph (in a program in 2004) had they been measured with the present day methods.
 

NYLove78

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
SRT - Adjusted Avg - 43.36, SR - 85.15
IVAR - Adjusted Avg - 48.98, SR - 99.20
AND that in much more difficult conditions against far better bowling. Pretty much drives the point home.

Btw when you took the averages and strike-rates for '70-'90 and '90-'10 you did not exclude Richards' and SRT's figures from their respective eras' statistics and then obtain these figures. Had you done that Richards would have averaged 50 with a sr of 100+. Anyway stats don't tell you how difficult it was then. You get out once and you are gone. Chances of getting out due to factors like intimidation etc were much more in the Richards era and it was to his credit that he terrorized the fast bowlers who were terrorizing the other batsmen.
 

NYLove78

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
That actually isn't true. The argument came up here before many times and Manan (silentstriker) e-mailed the scientist who ran the whole thing to clear it up once and for all. The speeds were measured on precisely the same trajectory and at precisely the same location as they are today.

I'm not sure you have the speeds correct either.
Which scientist are you speaking of? Dr Frank Pyke of the University of Western Australia had designed the tests in the 70s. I have seen the program on ESPN where he said that the speeds were averaged over the pitch (not taken at the batsman's end as claimed by Thomson). He also said that he was 100% certain that Thomson as also some others from the 70s/80s would have confortably measured over 100 mph had they been tested with the speedguns around then (The program I watched was aired in 2004).

If I had recorded it I could have posted it on Youtube and the link for that here. While I am convinced about what believe in and shall not try to impose my opinion on others I would have to see a copy of that exact e-mail from Dr Pyke (by whoever contacted him) to believe otherwise. I cannot accept it on hearsay as it is contradictory to what I saw and heard.
 

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
AND that in much more difficult conditions against far better bowling. Pretty much drives the point home.

Btw when you took the averages and strike-rates for '70-'90 and '90-'10 you did not exclude Richards' and SRT's figures from their respective eras' statistics and then obtain these figures. Had you done that Richards would have averaged 50 with a sr of 100+. Anyway stats don't tell you how difficult it was then. You get out once and you are gone. Chances of getting out due to factors like intimidation etc were much more in the Richards era and it was to his credit that he terrorized the fast bowlers who were terrorizing the other batsmen.
No it doesn't.Averages were adjusted to make the bowling equal. After adjusting averages no point in talking about bowling standards. But FTR ODI bowlers of 1990s were far better than that of 1970s, because most of the all time great ODI bowlers are from 1990s.

And I am still trying to hear from anyone that he terrorized Qadir or Chandrasekar. Chandra even bowled bouncers at him and was not short of a word as well.
 
Last edited:

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah four-pronged spin attacks on the flat batting tracks of the 90s/00s. You are the one who is dreaming. Richards would be scoring 1000 runs a innings.
Rubbish. Almost every team fell for that. And in 1990s Indian wickets were not flat. They were dustbowls. Your generalization of recent Indian pitches to that of 1990s shows that you have not watched many matches on those tracks. And this four prong attack was used in tests, but not ODIs. I can show that Richards never scored a century in India when Chandrasekar, the best spinner of the era played.

Coming back to ODIs, SC produced ODI spinners that were few classes above what Richards played mostly in ODIs (except perhaps Qadir). Try and prove otherwise of you can. No spinner that Richards played comes close to Murali / Warne / Saqlain / Kumble standards in ODIs

You heard of Lillee/Thomson/Pascoe/Gilmour/Walker/Hogg/Hurst/Dymock etc from Aus?

Snow/Willis/Ward/Old/Hendrick/Selvey/Botham/Dilley etc from Eng?

Those from India, Pakistan etc also had the small matter of facing in addition Roberts/Garner/Holding/Marshall/Croft/Clarke/Daniels/Patterson etc from the WI.
Compare that to McGrath / Wasim / Waqar / Akthar / Donald / Pollock / Lee / Devilliers and Bond and see what you get.

I would prefer to face Vaas and Murali on benign tracks covered like a medieval knight with a ton of rules to cripple them (as in the 90s/00s) rather than those four-prongs from above and others like Imran, Hadlee, Nawaz or even Kapil on those road-like tracks of the 70s/80s without even a helmet when they could come 6 (or 8) times at my head.
Preferring it is one. Surviving it is another. If you practice without a helmet, then you can manage with it. This "manly" rubbish ha sbeen going on for a while now. Try batting without the box to show you are really fearless or manly.

Richards in addition to all those above also combated Peter Pollock, Procter, Vincent Van der Bijl and LeRoux in the Packer Series and averaged over 100 at a point and made greats like Barry Richards and Greg Chappell look pedestrian.
Still beating about the bush. IVAR is probably the best player of pace that we have seen in last half a century. But that does not make him better than SRT, because he was troubled by spinners who were inferior to above mentioned ones. IVAR would be the greatest batsmen if there were no spinners.
 

NYLove78

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
far more games played overall=less rest, games more scrutinized, more specialized ODI players, better bowlers, being opener, better fielders, more countries, inclusion of south africa...it can go both ways mate.
Maximus they were not playing less in the 70s/80s. Somebody once presented the stats for the same on another forum and they were actually spending more days on the field if one included the statistics for the county matches as well though I agree they were not all international matches. However don't forget that those matches were FIERCELY contested. Richards maintains that Thomson is the fastest that he ever faced or even saw till date; that Lillee was the best that he ever played; but he is on record saying that one Sylvester Clarke was the ONLY bowler that ever remotely put fear into him.

Being opener if anything only helped SRT's stats immensely like when he caught Aus without McGrath/Gillespie/Lee (Sharjah '98) and that too on the flattest track ever. He also faced Pak without Akram/Younis/Shoaib (Dhaka '98). He massacred Eng (pathetic through the 90s and 00s except for the Ashes 05), NZ (without Bond), Zimbabwe, Kenya, Bangladesh, Namibia etc for as long as possible by getting to open.

Excluding SA we have already seen the stats for the gr8 man.

Scrutiny by opposition can also go both ways my friend. SRT also gets to read the actions and understand the limitations of his opponents' bowling.
 

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
I have watched all the quickest bowlers of the 90s/00s and NOBODY has come EVEN close to hitting the SS on the full in Aus and SA as well (Shoaib, Lee etc have all played many times there).

I watched Dr Frank Pyke did say that Thomson and a few others as well from the 70s would have hit over 100 mph (in a program in 2004) had they been measured with the present day methods.
NYLove78 said:
I cannot accept it on hearsay as it is contradictory to what I saw and heard.
This. post the video that Thompson hits the side screen one bounce. I don't want hearsay evidence.
 

NYLove78

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Compare that to McGrath / Wasim / Waqar / Akthar / Donald / Pollock / Lee / Devilliers and Bond and see what you get.

Preferring it is one. Surviving it is another. If you practice without a helmet, then you can manage with it. This "manly" rubbish ha sbeen going on for a while now. Try batting without the box to show you are really fearless or manly.
Haha. WHEN did he face more than two of those guys together? EVEN ONE MATCH? NOPE.

You have been talking about the box for a while too. IVAR never wore the box. As far as protective gear goes - only gloves and pads. Maybe you will penalize him for that now. And you are ASSUMING (BIG ASSUMPTION) that SRT and others would adapt to playing without helmet on more difficult pitches without rules to restrict those monsters coming at their heads. Whilst you do not accord a much much more possible scenario that Richards would handle the spinners well had he got to play them more often. Great.
 

NYLove78

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
This. post the video that Thompson hits the side screen one bounce. I don't want hearsay evidence.
Is CW all that you are in when on the Net. Please read the WIKI page for Jeffrey Robert Thomson and you will see more than one citation for the same. I hope Your Majesty would heed at least those references on a site that is well looked after by 'admins' who are very efficient and honest.

It also says the only other people to do that are Charles Kortright (played in the 1890s), Frank Tyson (1950s) and Roy Gilchrist (1960s).
 

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
Haha. WHEN did he face more than two of those guys together? EVEN ONE MATCH? NOPE.

You have been talking about the box for a while too. IVAR never wore the box. As far as protective gear goes - only gloves and pads. Maybe you will penalize him for that now. And you are ASSUMING (BIG ASSUMPTION) that SRT and others would adapt to playing without helmet on more difficult pitches without rules to restrict those monsters coming at their heads. Whilst you do not accord a much much more possible scenario that Richards would handle the spinners well had he got to play them more often. Great.
Bradman averaged 99 and never wore a helmet. Let's forget him, because he's superhuman. But there were plenty of guys who did better than Richards on pitches worse than what Richards had in his scariest dreams. SRT is a great of the era. Great of a one era is a great at another era. Once again you say that IVAR never wore a box. Please confirm! Only the average players get intimidated. Great players don't give a**** about pace or bouncers. Richards may be mre comfortable playing spin, but that is no gurantee that he'll score well. Sorry, your arguments does not make sense.
 

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
Is CW all that you are in when on the Net. Please read the WIKI page for Jeffrey Robert Thomson and you will see more than one citation for the same. I hope Your Majesty would heed at least those references on a site that is well looked after by 'admins' who are very efficient and honest.

It also says the only other people to do that are Charles Kortright (played in the 1890s), Frank Tyson (1950s) and Roy Gilchrist (1960s).
I don't believe biased accounts. Until someone posts a link to that video, I am not going to accept the rubbish. I have seen far worse rubbish than this on books and news paper articles. Snce this was an ashes test, there should be footage.

And BTW Roy Gilchrist sent some of his deliveries well above batsmen's head on full and this is possible. (Thomson might ave done the same, which is illegal today)
 

NYLove78

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Richards did so against faster, better, more intimidatory bowling---Not true. Sachin faced better bowlers.
Disagree with that Richards faced less great bowlers. If anything he faced less great spinners. Murali, Warne, Saqlain and Kumble are probably the four best spinners ever (not sure where O'Reilly etc stand) though Qadir, Qasim and the four Indian spinners were good. However I have read MOST former cricketers and analysts rate Lillee, Imran, Hadlee and Marshall as the fur greatest fast bowlers ever. Indeed on their day they were as fast, as lethal and as devastating as any thats been, is or shall ever be. Facing them on those pitches without a helmet and no restrictions as well. Haha SRT would be a sitting duck.

Also have you looked into how often SRT really faced the greats of his era? The 90s had Walsh, Ambrose, Akram and Younis. Akram says he has not bowled to SRT from '90 to '98 in Tests which was the peak of the Wasim-Waqar pair See http://cricketfiles.com/meet-the-stars/an-interview-with-wasim-akram/. You can see that Akram turned 32 that year and Younis though younger was past his best even before. The total number of ODIs outside the Indian pitches that SRT faced Akram OR Younis in is 29 (about 6% of his total matches). He averages <36 there and this includes 19 matches played on flat tracks like Sharjah.

SRT faced Walsh OR Ambrose in a total of 14 ODIs and Tests. Half of them were in or after '97 when they were mere shadows os their early 90s selves. Mind you I mean OR and not AND.

Richards had more intimidating opposition on more difficult pitches without protection and without restrictions. More importantly he faced them PEAK-to-PEAK, MORE often, and often did not have the advantage of playing them at home.

Richards did so with inferior equipment.---So did the bowlers of that time. So it evens out.
This is probably the least relevant factor that I listed separately so that I could drive my point home to some of the guys here. My main point was Richards' bat being light as most other factors have already been accounted for in the earlier points.

SRT bats in an era where bats are better technologically with more meat on them. Richards batted with one of the lightest bats. There was an interesting article by an amateur physicist (shall try to locate it) where he brought out the similarities between Bradman and Richards and one was that they used their lower (right) hand grip as a fulcrum and their upper (left) hand to rotate their bat as if a machine to generate devastating power. People were awestruck how Richards would utterly destroy with such a light bat (unlike SRT) and without any backlift (unlike Lara).
 
Last edited:

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
You heard of Lillee/Thomson/Pascoe/Gilmour/Walker/Hogg/Hurst/Dymock etc from Aus?

Snow/Willis/Ward/Old/Hendrick/Selvey/Botham/Dilley etc from Eng?
So except for Thomson who is the express pace merchants? pascoe was wild. Gimour was one hit wonder. Lillee was exceptional bowler, but not "super fast" majority of his carreer. The most important question is is anyone in that list is a great ODI bowler as McGrath or Wasim? They may not be frightening, but you are out to them before you are frightened.
 

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
SRT bats in an era where bats are better technologically with more meat on them. Richards batted with one of the lightest bats. There was an interesting article by an amateur physicist (shall try to locate it) where he brought out the similarities between Bradman and Richards and one was that they used their lower (right) hand grip as a fulcrum and their upper (left) hand to rotate their bat as if a machine to generate devastating power. People were awestruck how Richards would utterly destroy with such a light bat (unlike SRT) and without any backlift (unlike Lara).
That is personal preference. Some use heavy bats so they could get power, but this makes playing hrizontal bat shots difficult. Lighter bats needs more swing, but easier to pull and hook. Azhar used a light bat, but hit the ball as hard as SRT. Jayasuriya and Gilly use a light bats and when they hit it, it stays hit as what IVAR used to do. The light bat may be the reason why IVAR struggled against good spinners, because it lets you play early. If he batted with a heavy vat like Lloyd, might had been successful against spinners that what he achieved.
 

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
How does playing with a lighter bat or without a backlift make someone a better batsmen?

Don't think your team was awarded bonus runs for doing this.
 

Top