• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Appreciating good techniques

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Keeping your head inline with the ball isn't the best advice for playing swing bowling because that's how you get into a bad habit of falling across the crease. For example, if a bowler bowls several balls outside the offstump and you're trying to keep your head inline with the ball then your weight is going to be shifting to the offside; then the bowler bowls an inswinger and your weight is shifting to the offside then the likelyhood is that you're going to get rapped on the pads. You should keep your head still.

Ideally, the best way to counteract good swing bowling is to stand outside your crease (assuming that you play the short ball like a god or you're willing to wear acouple on the body). Also, if you wanna play the percentages then only play shots off of your body and generally cut off any offside shots for the time being. Do that, plus playing straight and only flicking through midwicket when the ball is on leg stump (not off and middle) and you should be fine. Take it for what it's worth; I scored my first ton in Sydney Grade Cricket (where the state players play, not average joe park cricket) last week. :cool:
Read my lips....

To learn the basics of footwork, one must, at the first step, leave lateral movement out. It makes it simpler.​
:)
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Standing outside your crease can actually make things more difficult, because it reduces your reaction-time, something a top-quality, pacy swing bowler will relish.

Also, if the bowler is less than express pace and not of giant height, it's easy to put a stop to if you've got a good-quality wicketkeeper in your side. Minute I see someone doing that to me I tell the wicketkeeper to come up to the stumps (if he hasn't spotted it and done it himself, which he mostly has).
 

wfdu_ben91

International 12th Man
Standing outside your crease can actually make things more difficult, because it reduces your reaction-time, something a top-quality, pacy swing bowler will relish.

Also, if the bowler is less than express pace and not of giant height, it's easy to put a stop to if you've got a good-quality wicketkeeper in your side. Minute I see someone doing that to me I tell the wicketkeeper to come up to the stumps (if he hasn't spotted it and done it himself, which he mostly has).
If you're a good enough batsman then batting outside of your crease shouldn't be much of an issue when it comes to reaction time. Matthew Hayden used to stand outside his crease and walk at bowlers bowling 140kph+.

Good effort Ben, taken that average well above 12 now then! What grade was the hundred scored in? 4th?
Hows your cricket coming along anyway? Have you improved on your 62mph effort ball since last season?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
If you're a good enough batsman then batting outside of your crease shouldn't be much of an issue when it comes to reaction time. Matthew Hayden used to stand outside his crease and walk at bowlers bowling 140kph+.
When the ball wasn't swinging. Hayden only rarely faced a swinging ball after 2000/01.

When the ball's coming at you at 140kph, unless you've got Jedi reflexes, you need all the reaction time you can get, and standing outside your crease is seldom a good idea.
 

wfdu_ben91

International 12th Man
Read my lips....

To learn the basics of footwork, one must, at the first step, leave lateral movement out. It makes it simpler.​
:)
What I was saying didn't have much to do with footwork. Moreso having your head way outside offstump but being stuck on the crease, ala Alastair Cook.
 

wfdu_ben91

International 12th Man
When the ball wasn't swinging. Hayden only rarely faced a swinging ball after 2000/01.

When the ball's coming at you at 140kph, unless you've got Jedi reflexes, you need all the reaction time you can get, and standing outside your crease is seldom a good idea.
The idea that Hayden rarely faced a swinging ball after 2000/01 is completely nonsensical and untrue. I don't see why it would hound the batsman to get back into his crease if the ball is swinging anyway, when that's the main reason why batsman come out of their crease in the first place.

Last year in the 2020 Australia vs Allstars game, Hayden walked down at Siddle's 145kph delievery and smashed it straight back at Siddle for 4. Year out of retirement and all. Michael Clarke trains upto 160kph on the bowling machine aswell, on concete pitches aswell.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
The idea that Hayden rarely faced a swinging ball after 2000/01 is completely nonsensical and untrue.
I've talked enough of that elsewhere and have no wish to go through the whole thing for the 10,562,751st time, but suffice to say AFAIC, it is absolutely true.
I don't see why it would hound the batsman to get back into his crease if the ball is swinging anyway, when that's the main reason why batsman come out of their crease in the first place.
It might not hound the batsman back into his crease, but it'll sure as hell knock him over before long.
Last year in the 2020 Australia vs Allstars game, Hayden walked down at Siddle's 145kph delievery and smashed it straight back at Siddle for 4.
So?
Year out of retirement and all. Michael Clarke trains upto 160kph on the bowling machine aswell, on concete pitches aswell.
Yes, and 160kph is incredibly fast and the sort of thing you'd be beyond insane to stand out of your crease to.
 

wfdu_ben91

International 12th Man
I've talked enough of that elsewhere and have no wish to go through the whole thing for the 10,562,751st time, but suffice to say AFAIC, it is absolutely true.
Yeah, well you can go over it again because it's complete rubbish. 197 vs England on youtube, there is footage of the ball swinging, South Africa 2005/06, The Oval 05, England @ MCG 06, The entire India vs Australia 2007/08 series and they are just examples off the top of my head where Hayden had to deal with the swinging ball at one point or another.

It might not hound the batsman back into his crease, but it'll sure as hell knock him over before long.
Not really, because the further you stand outside your crease, the less time it has to swing.

Example of batting outside your crease (or in this case walking) with ease.

Yes, and 160kph is incredibly fast and the sort of thing you'd be beyond insane to stand out of your crease to.
Yeah, but if a batsman can handle 160kph whilst batting in his crease then facing 140kph outside of your crease would be like a cake walk in comparison.
 
Last edited:

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Yeah, well you can go over it again because it's complete rubbish. 197 vs England on youtube, there is footage of the ball swinging, South Africa 2005/06, The Oval 05, England @ MCG 06, The entire India vs Australia 2007/08 series and they are just examples off the top of my head where Hayden had to deal with the swinging ball at one point or another.
I could go over it again, but I won't do, because I unlike some am a considerate person who doesn't want to bore everyone to death with posting of the type they're utterly sick of.

Suffice to say that in none of those examples, except possibly the lattermost, did Hayden successfully combat the swinging ball.
Not really, because the further you stand outside your crease, the less time it has to swing.
Unless you're advocating standing halfway down the pitch it still has time to swing easily enough to cause batsmen problems if the bowler is one who aims his deliveries rather than acts on a metronome.
Example of batting outside your crease (or in this case walking) with ease.
Siddle is not a swing bowler - it's irrelevant. I've seen Hayden walk at bowlers quicker than Siddle (Craig White for instance) before now.
Yeah, but if a batsman can handle 160kph whilst batting in his crease then facing 140kph outside of your crease would be like a cake walk in comparison.
Not really. Different strokes for different folks.
 
Last edited:

King Pietersen

International Captain
Not really, because the further you stand outside your crease, the less time it has to swing.
As Richard rightly pointed out, unless you're half-way down the track, the ball is still going to have time to swing. The ball only needs to swing a couple of inches to successfully take the edge.

As for your dig at me, I was genuinely asking a question, not trying to have a go. You're far too defensive for your own good.
 

GuyFromLancs

State Vice-Captain
Technique is all in the eye of the beholder when you are playing. I've played a bit of cricket since the age of 8 or so, mainly as a batsman owed to a dodgy wrist, and one shot I have never been able to play that the pros do is the square cut of the back-foot. I like pulling off the back foot and driving straight off the front but I couldn't intentionally play behind square if my life depended on it. Too slow on my feet, too heavy a touch.

I am interested in players who play this shot with ease. Andrew Strauss being one in the modern game.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
On Ben's point re falling over trying to get you head online with the ball, isn't it:
a) a footwork problem, rather than a head positioning problem, ie. if you're trying to put you head over the ball without moving your feet in a way to keep balanced, and
b) a judgement issue, in that if you've moved to a position where your head is in line with your off stump, and you play a ball that is still moving outside that line, you're playing at a ball you can leave?
 

Jigga988

State 12th Man
Standing outside your crease can actually make things more difficult, because it reduces your reaction-time, something a top-quality, pacy swing bowler will relish.

Also, if the bowler is less than express pace and not of giant height, it's easy to put a stop to if you've got a good-quality wicketkeeper in your side. Minute I see someone doing that to me I tell the wicketkeeper to come up to the stumps (if he hasn't spotted it and done it himself, which he mostly has).
But surely the batsman has done his job if he gets the keeper to stand up - have no idea what level you play at, but in trial matches for U17 essex they really couldn't catch a thing standing up, depends how many slips you have I suppose, but it always makes an away-swinger less likely to take a wicket if the keepers up...
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Ugh @ where this thread has headed already.

Ben, please, if you can't stick to what Matt very politely asked in the first post, I'd ask that you stop posting in the thread at all. Now, I'm just one member asking another so feel free to ignore but I'm just saying, there's no need to re-hash stuff done to death in other threads and not really related to this one. Your call.
 
Last edited:

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
But surely the batsman has done his job if he gets the keeper to stand up - have no idea what level you play at, but in trial matches for U17 essex they really couldn't catch a thing standing up, depends how many slips you have I suppose, but it always makes an away-swinger less likely to take a wicket if the keepers up...
Most of my outswingers get wickets because batsmen miss them by miles, only danger there is the wicketkeeper getting a bail in the eye. Yes, of course, if you have the 'keeper up to the stumps, he's not going to catch anything bar the thinnest of edges.

The level I play at is not of any tremendous standard, BTW.

If "doing your job" is getting someone to do something that disadvantages you, BTW, I'd say the job you've done is a pretty undesireable one.
 

Jigga988

State 12th Man
Most of my outswingers get wickets because batsmen miss them by miles, only danger there is the wicketkeeper getting a bail in the eye. Yes, of course, if you have the 'keeper up to the stumps, he's not going to catch anything bar the thinnest of edges.

The level I play at is not of any tremendous standard, BTW.

If "doing your job" is getting someone to do something that disadvantages you, BTW, I'd say the job you've done is a pretty undesireable one.
Well if you can swing it from leg to off every time fair play, I was just assuming the mode of dismissal for an outswinger would be edges hence why it would be advantageous for the batsmen as it minimises this threat...
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I only rarely get outside-edges, and when I do they tend to be real quality batsmen who've not got their eye in (any decent batsman who has got his eye in tends to have not-that-much trouble with me because I can only swing it in one direction and I'm neither remotely tall or all that quick). I get loads of batsmen - RHBs and LHBs - bowled with the outswinger (inswinger to a LHB) though.
 

Jigga988

State 12th Man
Sound like England could use a guy like you in Bangladesh... :happy:

More to the topic, in personal experience regarding swing always felt it was more about seem position and the body shape that was related to it was done purely to make the seem face either leg slip or the conventional slip...

If I'm bowling an inswinger I will tend to bowl almost the opposite to what coaches will advise, i.e. instead of getting side on, you almost have to bowl sort of front on to get your wrist heading to leg slip without just bowling a ball down legside... Always found away swing far more natural, I personally bowl it sort of round arm (not malinga or edwards style) as Richard said which enables the wrist to point to the slips without the ball being too wide of off stump...

Sorry for the poor explanations, wording has never been a strong suit of mine...
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
On Ben's point re falling over trying to get you head online with the ball, isn't it:
a) a footwork problem, rather than a head positioning problem, ie. if you're trying to put you head over the ball without moving your feet in a way to keep balanced, and
b) a judgement issue, in that if you've moved to a position where your head is in line with your off stump, and you play a ball that is still moving outside that line, you're playing at a ball you can leave?
Yeah, pretty much it.
 

Top