Player of the Decade - Ponting

[GIMH]

Guys I would rate as best ODI captains and easily better than Ponting 90s onwards (from when I have started watching cricket)

Martin Crowe
Imran Khan
Ranatunga
Hansie Cronje (if we forget match fixing for a moment)
Dave Houghton
Steve Waugh
Stephen Fleming
Graeme Smith

Really?

Such a ridiculous comment. Under his leadership, the team has won 2 World Cups, a Champions Trophy, a massive proportion of tests home and away. Oh, but they've lost the Ashes in England twice (in extremely tight series both times), and struggled in India with a then massively green attack = obviously **** leader EDIT: ok, you qualified it by saying you were for reasons of your own ignoring LO cricket, but the point about the amount of tests won remains, plus I think its an unreasonable attitude to ignore LO cricket in assessing a cricketer overall - and he's a bloody good ODI captain.

I'm not saying he's the most brilliant tactical leader ever, but he gets underrated as a captain by an obscene amount by his critics. EVERY single other national team, probably apart from SA and NZ would trade his leadership for their current captain's in a heartbeat. He's as good a captain as Border or Steve Waugh in many ways IMO.

Not sure I would trade him as a captain. I'm undecided on the whole about Strauss as a captain - love the guy, seems to get the key moments right most of the time but does you have you scratching your head a lot of the time. I think a few of the clangers Ponting has dropped have come in some of the biggest series he's captained - Ashes 05, India 08, Ashes 09. You've got the toss at Edgbaston, losing his rag after being ran out in Nottingham, telling the batsman to take the light at The Oval (if that was his decision), the part-time bowler fiasco in India, North bowling at the death in Cardiff. I don't watch as much of Australia as yourself obviously, but I can't think of too many dropped bollocks outside of these three series, but could probably list a couple more from those series if I thought about it. That says something to me.

That being said, I don't think captaincy and leadership are one of the same, and in terms of leading from the front there are very few in my lifetime that can match him.

And by the way, I may have already said it but he definitely deserves this award.

 

[GIMH]

Stephen Fleming was one of the great right arm fast bowlers of the 1950s

 

[Pratters]

Really?

Graeme Smith is highly underrated as captain. He has always been a powerful captain. He chucked Klusener out of the team. He has power. He commands respect. Team mates have faith in him and guys like AB Devilliers really look upto him. Smith has been captaining from such a young age and has been captaining well. Over the years, the worth of Smith as a captain will be realized and he will be ranked very highly IMO.

 

[aussie]

Graeme Smith is highly underrated as captain. He has always been a powerful captain. He chucked Klusener out of the team. He has power. He commands respect. Team mates have faith in him and guys like AB Devilliers really look upto him. Smith has been captaining from such a young age and has been captaining well. Over the years, the worth of Smith as a captain will be realized and he will be ranked very highly IMO.

Small point in the overall scheme of things. But Smith didn't exaclty "chuck" Zulu out out the SA team. Klusener by the time Smith became captain in 2003 really wasn't good enough as a test of ODI player - any SA captain would have not wanted him anymore at the time.


EDIT: BTW how was Dave Houghton a better ODI captain than Ponting??

 

[Redbacks]

but I can't think of too many dropped bollocks outside of these three series, but could probably list a couple more from those series if I thought about it. That says something to me.

It perhaps suggests the pressure he is under when the team loses, the reactions suggests by some odd logic Aus can't be outplayed. If we lose a series he is instantly to blame and if we win well Warne, McGrath, Hayden et al did it all and anyone could do it....

 

[Pratters]

Small point in the overall scheme of things. But Smith didn't exaclty "chuck" Zulu out out the SA team. Klusener by the time Smith became captain in 2003 really wasn't good enough as a test of ODI player - any SA captain would have not wanted him anymore at the time.

Zulu was chucked out by Smith due to differences, that's how I remember it any way.

EDIT: BTW how was Dave Houghton a better ODI captain than Ponting??

Dave Houghton was a master strategist. He had one of the best brains I have seen in cricket.

 

[Pratters]

I did a quick search and found this -

Cricinfo.com

Read to see how Houghton has cricket ingrained in his fabric.

 

[Redbacks]

That argument, and the the whole "he can just through the ball to warne" argument that ALWAYS gets thrown up, is pretty rubbish imo. To me it's almost like saying the only way someone can be a recognised as a good captain is to have a not very good team, win a few matches that you weren't supposed to, and be a gallant loser the rest of the time. It's almost like the polar opposite equivalent (if that even makes sense :S it's 1:30am in my defence ) of the "Winnings % is all that matters" argument.

Flipping the values upside down worked for Jesus and still satisfys the ego today.....

 

[GIMH]

Graeme Smith is highly underrated as captain. He has always been a powerful captain. He chucked Klusener out of the team. He has power. He commands respect. Team mates have faith in him and guys like AB Devilliers really look upto him. Smith has been captaining from such a young age and has been captaining well. Over the years, the worth of Smith as a captain will be realized and he will be ranked very highly IMO.

With the talent at his disposal, they have underperformed in ODIs. IIRC they were ranked #1 going into the 2007 WC or certainly not long before it. They made an early exit in the CT as hosts. I agree with your earlier posts that you shouldn't judge a captain purely on win %, but as an ODI captain I don't really see how you can rank Smith above Ponting.

 

[aussie]

Zulu was chucked out by Smith due to differences, that's how I remember it any way.

Maybe he did. But as i said Klusener was way passed his peak as all-rounder in tests & ODIs by the time Smith became captain.

So it wasn't a situation where Smith "chucked" a Klusener at his "peak" out of the team.

Dave Houghton was a master strategist. He had one of the best brains I have seen in cricket.

So Dave Houghton who skippers ZIM in 17 ODIs of his 63 ODIs he played even if he was a very good tactician. You would put him over Ponting who captain AUS in 199 of is 330 games when Ponting was proven over those MANY games as a FAR better ODI skipper than he was a test skipper?.

HAAAA..

 

[Johnners]

Any chance of you disappearing for another 7 years muppet?

Missed this last night, but you know better than to be baiting people Matt.

 

[Streetwise]

Sambit Bal had this to say as one of the panel members that picked Ponting, he himself picked McGrath but believes the collective wisom of the group got it right in selecting Ponting.

We asked the jury to choose the Player of Decade on the basis of quality of their performances, consistency and durability, contribution to their team's overall performance, and the impact they had on the game on the whole. Ponting’s case went beyond the numbers alone which were staggering in any case. He led, both with the bat and on the field, Australia to two World Cup wins, and his fire has kept Australia burning even after they lost all their great players apart from him.

 

[Redbacks]

Rubbish.

Good to see Admin finally started swapping your posts with an opinion of the content

 

[Anil]

mcgrath, player of the decade for me...ponting is certainly there near the top though...

 

[Pratters]

Maybe he did. But as i said Klusener was way passed his peak as all-rounder in tests & ODIs by the time Smith became captain.

So it wasn't a situation where Smith "chucked" a Klusener at his "peak" out of the team.

No one said he chucked out Klusener at his peak.

So Dave Houghton who skippers ZIM in 17 ODIs of his 63 ODIs he played even if he was a very good tactician. You would put him over Ponting who captain AUS in 199 of is 330 games when Ponting was proven over those MANY games as a FAR better ODI skipper than he was a test skipper?.

HAAAA..

He captained in very few international matches yes, but he was a better captain IMO.

 

[Ikki]

I am going to post a more lengthy reply looking at the cases of those being compared to Ponting but just have to say; it is a testament to how little liked and respected he is when people talk about Kallis being better because of the extra his bowling gives yet don't use the same argument for Pollock over McGrath.

Look, Ponting's record as a batsman this decade is as good as McGrath's with the ball - if not better. Yet Ponting is one of the best fielders ever as well as one of the most successful captains of all time. I put McGrath his equal but in retrospect I may have been unkind to Ponting.

 

[Son Of Coco]

He hasn't conclusively failed, but what exactly has he done to label his leadership a "success"? As far as I can see Australia are still in the middle of a transitional period and Ponting's record so far is par.

Fair point on the ODIs though, I instinctively don't think of them at all. It's weird because I rather like LO cricket, but it just feels quite.. unimportant.

We're going to be in the middle of a transitional period for a while...there's nothing Ponting can do about this. Unless he hits the local shopping malls scouting for talent. The best he can do is lead the team he has as successfully as possible and back them to do their best at the top level. I think his results have been mixed, but they're going to be with a young, inexperienced team. He backs the new players to the hilt and you can see how they benefit from it. In that regard he is a success as a captain.

I don't think he's a great captain by the way. He does some good things and does some other things that make you wonder what he's thinking.

 

[Pratters]

With the talent at his disposal, they have underperformed in ODIs. IIRC they were ranked #1 going into the 2007 WC or certainly not long before it. They made an early exit in the CT as hosts. I agree with your earlier posts that you shouldn't judge a captain purely on win %, but as an ODI captain I don't really see how you can rank Smith above Ponting.

I don't blame Smith for the under performance.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Mcgrath would not have been half as successful if it wasnt for warne
How could ponting be described as 'BY FAR THE BEST BATSMEN OF THE DECADE' yousuf youhana and kallis both averaged the same over the decade and had to face a rampant aussie attack

Yeah he benefitted greatly when he was tearing apart a top order by having Warne opening the bowling with him at the other end.

 

[Prince EWS]

I am going to post a more lengthy reply looking at the cases of those being compared to Ponting but just have to say; it is a testament to how little liked and respected he is when people talk about Kallis being better because of the extra his bowling gives yet don't use the same argument for Pollock over McGrath.

Look, Ponting's record as a batsman this decade is as good as McGrath's with the ball - if not better. Yet Ponting is one of the best fielders ever as well as one of the most successful captains of all time. I put McGrath his equal but in retrospect I may have been unkind to Ponting.

Actually, I would use the same argument for Pollock over McGrath. Although I think the difference between their bowling (between 2000 and 2009 anyway) is a bit more than the difference between Ponting's batting and Kallis, and I also think Kallis's bowling was more useful than Pollock's batting, so overall it'd be a lot closer.