*Unofficial* England ODI team thread

[Richard]

So why doesn't Broad?

Against ODI standard teams, Broad and Johnson's career ODI records to date are virtually identical.

Player  	          Span  	Mat  	Inns  	Overs  	Mdns  	Runs  	Wkts  	BBI  	Ave  	Econ 	SR  	4  	5
MG Johnson (Aus)  	2005-2009  	44  	44  	357.5  	24  	1774  	65  	5/26  	27.29  	4.95  	33.0  	2  	2
SCJ Broad (Eng) 	2006-2008 	41 	41 	336.5 	26 	1675 	60 	5/23 	27.91 	4.97 	33.6 	2 	1

I realise this. However, as I've said, Broad has actually been poor more often than he's been good in ODIs. Johnson has been much more constant - he's had 7 or 8 good games (bowling both economically and penetratively) in a row then 7 or 8 really bad ones (being expensive and unpenetrative). Check it out.

 

[Richard]

Sometimes I get the feeling that Richard would actually rather discuss something he's discussed 999 times before with members who haven't heard his opinion on them yet than actually discuss something he hasn't gone through yet.

Not really. It does get tiresome sometimes, but I don't neccessarily mind it as long as I don't have to do it too often.

 

[Rant0r]

i remember first watching johnson against nz, and he got caned, one dayers are still a good grounding area.

funnily enough after watching some highlights from the tests in england this year or maybe last, i forget, broad has a similar seam position to johnson (scrambled slightly) and as i've harped on and on about how he needs to fix it, it hasn't in any way slowed down his wicket taking.

batting talent is also similar.

hopefully broad is nothing like his old man just quietly

 

[aussie]

Best ODI & T20 teams.

Good time to bump this thread.

Looking ahead of next years T20 WC & 2011 WC, this is what i "tentatively think England's best XIs in ODIs & T20s could look like:

Best ODI XI: (with Flintoff)

Strauss
Kieswetter/Davies
KP
Shah
Collingwood
Morgan
Flintoff
Mascarenhas
Broad
Swann
Anderson

Other potential "consistent ODI quality" back-ups:

Trott, Patel, Rashid, Bresnan, Wright, Napier, Sidebottom.

Best ODI XI (without Flintoff)

Strauss
Denly/Trott
KP
Shah
Colly
Morgan
Prior or Kieswetter/Davies
Broad
Swann
Bresnan/Sidebottom
Anderson

Denly/Trott

Prior or Kieswetter/Davies

Given that when ENG lose Flintoff our bowling attack loses more the 50% of its potency in ODIs. Outside of the main 4 bowlers, England need to make up overs from Collingwood to complete 50. So these two (2) position have the biggest debate IMO when Freddie is not playing, since we need another player like Colly who can give decent overs with the ball - instead of picking Wright at 7.


T20 World Cup XI: (with Freddie)

Denly
Kieswetter/Davies
KP
Shah
Morgan
Colly
Flintoff
Mascarenhas/Rashid
Broad
Swann
Anderson

Back-ups: Trott, Wright, Patel, Bresnan/Sidebottom.

Dont want to think of T20 team without Freddie since then ENG would be useless. Just praying that he is fit then TBH.

 

[marc71178]

Oh yes, clearly Shah is a much better option than Trott, but since you still mention Prior that's not even your biggest error.

 

[aussie]

Oh yes, clearly Shah is a much better option than Trott,

I never said that. But i dont see a reason for dropping Shah although he has his faults. Trott should of course be in the ODI set-up - although i'm not sure would be his best position in the ODI middle-order. (he has been opening domestically and all)

but since you still mention Prior that's not even your biggest error.

As i keep saying, Prior once he is batting @ 7 instead of opening has a role in ODI team. Especially now with Flintoff casting further doubt about his possible return, for the sake of balance it would hard to not pick Prior @ 7 & revert to opening with Kieswetter or Davies.

 

[Jamee999]

Shah shouldn't play for England until he sorts out his running.

 

[Jarquis]

I never said that. But i dont see a reason for dropping Shah although he has his faults. Trott should of course be in the ODI set-up - although i'm not sure would be his best position in the ODI middle-order. (he has been opening domestically and all)

Then bat him 3 and KP 4. Fair enough IMO.

 

[aussie]

Shah shouldn't play for England until he sorts out his running.

If selectors where so harsh, PAK back in the days would have probably dropped Inzi pretty early.

 

[Jarquis]

If selectors where so harsh, PAK back in the days would have probably dropped Inzi pretty early.

Disagree. Despite the consequences of his running, Inzi's batting offers more to a team than an alternative batsman that was a good runner. Shah's batting isn't all that much better than the alternatives, if better at all(or in the case of Trott, considerably worse) but when you factor his running into the equation, England would be better of playing somebody else. Where as Pakistan would not have been.

 

[aussie]

Then bat him 3 and KP 4. Fair enough IMO.

Legitimate option yea. But ATS KP should stay at 3 in ODIs & T20s & control the innings, no need to hide him @ 4 like we do in tests.

Shah since has returned to ODI team in the summer of 07 has averaged 35 - only two average/poor ODI series in NZ 08 & vs AUS this year. His best role generally has been batting @ 6 & being a finisher, Morgan has proven he can do that role as we, so in a way it gives the middle-order of KP/Colly/Shah/Morgan a very aggressive look.

So ATM Trott should be a squad player keeping the likes of Colly/Shah/Morgan on their toes - but not a definite starter. But as i mentioned above, he could be an option to open with Strauss ahead of Denly in a non-Flintoff ODI XI.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Shah's running is a joke, his fielding is awful by international standards and he can barely bowl.

To make him worth a place in the side he'd have to be a real top notch batsman, but he isn't - he's just an average batsman.

I'd much sooner take a typical ODI player averaging 30 than Shah averaging 35.

 

[marc71178]

I never said that.

You selected a side that had Shah as a guaranteed pick but Trott not - therefore you're picking Shah over Trott, so yes, you did say that.

As i keep saying, Prior once he is batting @ 7 instead of opening has a role in ODI team.

Doesn't matter if you keep saying it or not, it doesn't make it any more worthwhile a selection.

 

[FBU]

Bowling 2009

19.0 overs 6 wickets at 16.00 econ 5.05 s/r 19.0 - Flintoff
109.4 overs 26 wickets at 24.23 econ 5.74 s/r 24.3 - Broad
134.3 overs 26 wickets at 25.57 econ 4.94 s/r 31.0 - Anderson
77.0 overs 13 wickets at 27.15 econ 4.58 s/r 35.5 - Swann
93.0 overs 13 wickets at 36.15 econ 5.05 s/r 42.9 - Collingwood
74.5 overs 10 wickets at 39.00 econ 5.21 s/r 44.9 - Bresnan
66.0 overs 7 wickets at 45.29 econ 4.80 s/r 56.5 - Mascarenhas
34.0 overs 4 wickets at 46.25 econ 5.44 s/r 51.0 - Onions
38.0 overs 4 wickets at 46.50 econ 4.89 s/r 57.0 - Wright
31.0 overs 3 wickets at 54.67 econ 5.29 s/r 62.0 - Rashid
61.0 overs 4 wickets at 83.00 econ 5.44 s/r 91.5 - Sidebottom
25 overs 0 wickets econ 5.56

 

[Richard]

Swann the best (well, no, least bad) England bowler this year by a country mile - wonder if he's now finally established in the side?

 

[King Pietersen]

I'd eventually like to see this XI:

Andrew Strauss *
Craig Kieswetter +
Kevin Pietersen
Jonathan Trott
Paul Collingwood
Eoin Morgan
Luke Wright
Andrew Flintoff
Stuart Broad
Graeme Swann
James Anderson

The only problem is getting 10 overs from Wright, Collingwood, Trott and Pietersen. Not the most reliable way to bowl 10 overs, although I think it could work. Sidebottom's looked pretty terrible in One Day cricket recently, and Onions shouldn't be in the squad. I'm not happy with Bresnan in the side either, would rather see Wright play.

 

[Athlai]

Wright for Mascarenhas
Either that or just get another bowler instead of him.
Flintoff-Broad-Swann would make a great 7-9

 

[Anna]

Trotty's very handy with the ball, actually.

 

[kingkallis]

I'd eventually like to see this XI:

Andrew Strauss *
Craig Kieswetter +
Kevin Pietersen
Jonathan Trott
Paul Collingwood
Eoin Morgan
Luke Wright
Andrew Flintoff
Stuart Broad
Graeme Swann
James Anderson

The only problem is getting 10 overs from Wright, Collingwood, Trott and Pietersen. Not the most reliable way to bowl 10 overs, although I think it could work. Sidebottom's looked pretty terrible in One Day cricket recently, and Onions shouldn't be in the squad. I'm not happy with Bresnan in the side either, would rather see Wright play.

WOW!

4 Africans @ the TOP and 1 Irish in the middle of the batting line up...

Its a pity England stopped producing players of their own!

 

[Anna]

WOW!

4 Africans @ the TOP and 1 Irish in the middle of the batting line up...

Its a pity England stopped producing players of their own!

Erm, England has historically been invaded by so many other tribes/races over the years that I doubt there's such a thing as a pure blooded Englishman anymore (well, not many of them), so I wish people would stop harking on about this business.

Kieswetter's an awesome prospect, so we should be jumping for joy that we won't have to play against him! (plus the fact that he plays for Somerset )