**Official** New Zealand in Australia

[Matt79]

Players out when playing against good teams on top of having declined in general, obviously.

tbh

 

[pasag]

Yeah, Australia has come back to the pack in the last view years, and the fact of the matter is that any match involving AUS/RSA/IND/NZL is going to be a tightly thought affair.

In the last few years we've won the CT and gone through the WC undefeated. Right now with injuries and poor form we've obviously come right back down.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Lack of a specialist spinner in members' teams on here is worrying imo.

Yip. Was gonna post the same.

Botha, Duminy, Vettori, Patel.

Select a specialist spinner, ffs.
Hauritz/McGain deserves a place over someone like White.
Players like Dussey and Clarke should be there to support, not have to bowl as a combined 5th bowler.

 

[GGG]

Where do we start:

Injuries to Marsh, Lee and Clark.
Ponting out due to rotation policy.
Batting Hopes, Clarke, Hussey M, White and Haddin all out of position.
Jaques only just back from injury.
Symonds out due to stupidity.
Half a bowler short most games - could be corrected by picking Noffke and elevating Hopes to opener (see previous point).
Warner picked completely on potential and given a run despite not earning a place.

Terrible team management at the moment. Some unlucky injuries, but no longer excessive numbers. But primarily it is down to some really poor player management from the coach and selectors. Taking tonights team, Australia would have been improved if they had have batted in this order:

Warner
Hopes
Clarke
Haddin
Hussey D
Hussey M
Ferguson
Johnson
Bracken
Hilfenhaus

Styris
Oram
Ryder
Bond
Vincent
Marshall

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

In the last few years we've won the CT and gone through the WC undefeated. Right now with injuries and poor form we've obviously come right back down.

Whereas other teams never suffer injuries and poor form?

Yeah, Australia won the CT and WC, but that doesn't mean that teams like RSA/IND/NZL couldn't challenge them at those times.

Yes, poor selection and injuries have played a role, but there is a need for some people to realise that its not just about what 'your team' does, but the other team has a part to play in a cricket game too.

 

[stephen]

Yet you never mentioned the opposition.
Last time I looked, cricket was a game played between 2 teams....

Because I was responding to a specific question about why we've lost so many in a row. A good team should be expected to win at least one out of five games, even against better teams. I was in no way attempting to downplay the good cricket that South Africa, and to a lesser extend New Zealand have played. NZ clearly outclassed Australia tonight and narrowly won the first game in what has widely been described as a poor game of cricket all-round.

Lack of a specialist spinner in members' teams on here is worrying imo.

Agreed, which is why I advocated potentially playing Hauritz/Heal in a team with 5 bowlers.

Yeah, Australia has come back to the pack in the last view years, and the fact of the matter is that any match involving AUS/RSA/IND/NZL is going to be a tightly thought affair.

It's an exciting time for world cricket.

Ever consider his technique is too lose to open the batting at international level. Moody dominate as an opener at domestic level, but was never good enough at ODI level. Though you could argue Warner technique not up to it either. There more to being an ODI opener then dominating at domestic level.

Of course there is a difference in difficulty and required skill when stepping up from domestic to international level. Yet I don't see the harm in playing a player in their natural position - someone who is more suited to that position than anywhere else at a time when we need someone for that position.

If we are going to play Hopes (which I think we should, he's been a solid allround performer) then we should play him as opener. He's proven to be a poor lower order slogger and is much better at a more grafting role.

 

[pasag]

Yeah, Australia won the CT and WC, but that doesn't mean that teams like RSA/IND/NZL couldn't challenge them at those times.

Maybe they could have but they didn't. The Australian WC side was way ahead of any other side in the world at the time and the results showed. Don't mix up the Test coming back to the pack and that of the ODI one, which is something that only happened this summer due to mass injuries and suspensions to our best players and also retirements (2xbest openers, best fast bowler, 2xbest all-rounders and best spinner) at the same time.

However, I don't think injuries are an excuse at all, I think the SA ODI side weren't all that flash and I think the NZ batting line up is probably one of the worst in the world. That said, they've both played very well and coupled with rubbish from the Australians means you get the emphatic results we're seeing recently.

 

[stephen]

In the last few years we've won the CT and gone through the WC undefeated. Right now with injuries and poor form we've obviously come right back down.

To be fair since we won the WC we have permanently lost:

Hayden
Gilchrist
Hogg
McGrath

Three all time great players including an opening partnership that won us two World Cups (and in Gilly's case three) and a bowler who had an average of around 22 and an economy around four and another bowler who had a very solid record.

The winning World Cup team looked like this:

Hayden
Gilchrist
Ponting
Symonds
Watson
Clarke
Hussey M
Hogg
Bracken
Tait
McGrath

Of that team, those who played in any of the last five matches include:

Ponting
Clarke
Hussey
Bracken
Tait

Not even half a team.

Can we stop pretending that this is the same side, or even close to the same side that played in the Chapions Trophy or the World Cup. This is a new Australia with a couple of exceptional players (Ponting, Bracken) a couple of very good players (Hussey, Clarke) and a whole host of inexperienced new players. They're under a relatively new coach as well.

Yes Australia is playing against a couple of very good sides. Sides that are better than Australia at the moment. But that is not the only reason why Australia are not playing well at the moment. The quality of players in the Australian side at the moment is higher than the level at which they're currently performing and a big part of that is poor team management.

 

[pasag]

To be fair since we won the WC we have permanently lost:

Hayden
Gilchrist
Hogg
McGrath

Three all time great players including an opening partnership that won us two World Cups (and in Gilly's case three) and a bowler who had an average of around 22 and an economy around four and another bowler who had a very solid record.

The winning World Cup team looked like this:

Hayden
Gilchrist
Ponting
Symonds
Watson
Clarke
Hussey M
Hogg
Bracken
Tait
McGrath

Of that team, those who played in any of the last five matches include:

Ponting
Clarke
Hussey
Bracken
Tait

Not even half a team.

Can we stop pretending that this is the same side, or even close to the same side that played in the Chapions Trophy or the World Cup. This is a new Australia with a couple of exceptional players (Ponting, Bracken) a couple of very good players (Hussey, Clarke) and a whole host of inexperienced new players. They're under a relatively new coach as well.

Yes Australia is playing against a couple of very good sides. Sides that are better than Australia at the moment. But that is not the only reason why Australia are not playing well at the moment. The quality of players in the Australian side at the moment is higher than the level at which they're currently performing and a big part of that is poor team management.

Right, however the post quoted said Aus had come back to the pack in recent years, which whilst is true right now was not true in the past few years which is what my post is referring to.

 

[stephen]

Right, however the post quoted said Aus had come back to the pack in recent years, which whilst is true right now was not true in the past few years which is what my post is referring to.

Well your post kinda implied that our troubles were only due to injury and suspension issues.

Losing two of your teams top 3 batsmen and two of your best ever bowlers really hurts your team.

Losing McGrath and Hogg at the same time is pretty much the ODI equivalent of losing McGrath and Warne at the same time from tests.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Maybe they could have but they didn't. The Australian WC side was way ahead of any other side in the world at the time and the results showed. Don't mix up the Test coming back to the pack and that of the ODI one, which is something that only happened this summer due to mass injuries and suspensions to our best players and also retirements (2xbest openers, best fast bowler, 2xbest all-rounders and best spinner) at the same time.

Yeah, I basically meant this. They have gradually came back to the pack with these retirements. Injuries are something that all teams get (esp NZ).

I think some NZ players also retired.

However, I don't think injuries are an excuse at all, I think the SA ODI side weren't all that flash and I think the NZ batting line up is probably one of the worst in the world. That said, they've both played very well and coupled with rubbish from the Australians means you get the emphatic results we're seeing recently.

Probably ahead of the current Australian one, I'd say.

 

[GGG]

To be fair since we won the WC we have permanently lost:
....

Want to compare that to New Zealand? If any country has a right to claim how their stocks have been decimated over the last few years its New Zealand.

 

[pasag]

Well your post kinda implied that our troubles were only due to injury and suspension issues.

Losing two of your teams top 3 batsmen and two of your best ever bowlers really hurts your team.

Losing McGrath and Hogg at the same time is pretty much the ODI equivalent of losing McGrath and Warne at the same time from tests.

As said in my follow up post, yes it's obviously a contributing factor, however I think we would have been well equipped to handle it (see 5-0 drubbing of WI), however couple that with injuries and suspensions - it's a lot of stuff happening at once. But STILL the sides we've been putting out are good sides that are underperforming and shouldn't be playing this badly.

 

[chaminda_00]

The thing is though that all sides around this time in the World Cup cycle have a similar number of retirements. No doubt the quality of players is higher. But have a look at the experience levels of all these International sides. The only country that has decent experience is Zimbabwe and thats cus they went through the cycle two years before everyone else.

All sides have injuries as well and really only four of the players injuried are 1st XI (Lee, Watson, Marsh and Symonds). Guys like Clark, Hodge, Jaques, and Siddle aren't really 1st XI players.

Australia's situation isn't that much different from what other sides are facing. Personally I think it more of a sign the quality of replacements isn't as good as it was before. Apart from Warner, most of these guys have played lots of FC/List A cricket, so there aren't that inexperienced.

 

[pasag]

Probably ahead of the current Australian one, I'd say.

Yeah, on form this Australian batting side is all over the shop. Can't chase and have forgotten how to set totals.

 

[Evermind]

Methinks something needs to be done about calculating averages using not-outs. Grant Elliott's average is 72 and his highest score is 61*. Surely there must be a way of tempering the excessive advantage gifted by not-outs to a batsman's average?

 

[Son Of Coco]

Reverse jinx

It's a joke and mockery of cricket to give Clarke man of the match. For what? Succesfully batting his team into another defeat?? Utter joke.

With a strike rate higher than NZ's whole top 4? Including the 'explosive' Brendan McCullum...

Why do I bother answering you...I should know better

 

[stephen]

Oh for these days again:

Most wickets

ICC World Cup, 2006/07

Player Mat Overs Mdns Runs Wkts BBI Ave Econ SR 4 5
GD McGrath (Aus) 11 80.5 5 357 26 3/14 13.73 4.41 18.6 0 0
M Muralitharan (SL) 10 84.4 1 351 23 4/19 15.26 4.14 22.0 2 0
SW Tait (Aus) 11 84.3 1 467 23 4/39 20.30 5.52 22.0 1 0
GB Hogg (Aus) 11 82.5 6 332 21 4/27 15.80 4.00 23.6 2 0
SL Malinga (SL) 8 58.2 6 284 18 4/54 15.77 4.86 19.4 1 0
NW Bracken (Aus) 10 71.4 10 258 16 4/19 16.12 3.60 26.8 1 0

Also, 4 Aussies in the top 10 on runs scored for that series.

Those were the days indeed.

 

[pasag]

Methinks something needs to be done about calculating averages using not-outs. Grant Elliott's average is 72 and his highest score is 61*. Surely there must be a way of tempering the excessive advantage gifted by not-outs to a batsman's average?

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/38639-flaw-batting-averages.html

 

[Evermind]

Australia couldn't get the wickets, but nice to see all the bowlers chip in with the wides.

The bowling lineup is dire, and needs revision. But Hilditch's choices seem pretty desperate and haphazard at the moment - he's selecting like an Indian or Pak selector.