Do you think Australia will repeat the heroics of 2004 ?

[silentstriker]

I mean, "the bumpcatcher"? Really.

I'm so using that.

 

[bond21]

Australia 4-0.

2 Umpires to be sacked from the series.

 

[Burgey]

I'm so using that.

To describe Dhoni?

 

[sanga1337]

Anyway in getting back to the topic at hand...i think the retirement of Macgill will hamper Australia(he was never in the class of Warne but still was ok)..esp considering that Lee,Johnson and Clark have not played a single test in the subcontinent to date(except in Bangladesh ofcourse)..Mcgain(sp?) looked like cannon fodder when we played him in the warm up match before our series down under.may be this new guy Casson is their option.

Macgill won't hamper us, heck its probably better he's retiring considering how badly everyone says he's bowling.

 

[Richard]

Don't worry about others think

Worst idea.

 

[Richard]

Surely Harbhajan's 2001 series was better than either of those two. That's not a knock against them either but Habhajan was something else in 2001, bar the first Test. For two Tests, he wasn't just tha danger man; he was the only man.

Yeah, absolutely. Jones and Flintoff were simply the largest (by a fair bit, but nonetheless not exclusives) prongs in a good bowling unit which also featured Giles (in the Second and Third Tests) and Hoggard (in the Fourth and Fifth).

Harbhajan Singh was the Indian bowling attack in those 2 Tests. 28 wickets in 2 games is pure insanity.

 

[Lambu]

Macgill won't hamper us, heck its probably better he's retiring considering how badly everyone says he's bowling.

I mentioned he was no Warne but the rest are worse i'm afraid, btw i'm yet to see Casson though.And regarding Ponting i'm confident when i say he won't cross 50 more than twice in the entire series.

 

[oitoitoi]

I think this series is going to depend so much on whether India has a fully fit side. With both sides at full strength I'd tip India as favourites but not by much. Ishant Sharma and Zaheer Khan are the only Indian pace bowlers who've looked remotely effective in India since Sreenath left and they'll need them both fit and firing (unlikely TBH). They'll also need the batting at full strength to match the Aussies (whose bowlers can bat too) and they desperately need to find an answer against Hayden who loves batting against India. A lot will depend on Bhaji and Kumble.

This Australian bowling attack just doesn't have the teeth it used to and without a real spin threat (other than the wonderous Michael Clarke....6/9...bloody hell...) it's hard to see them winning over a 4 test series. This team is also desperately short on test experience in India; Jaques, Hussey, Symonds, Haddin, Casson (if he's picked), Johnson, Lee and Clark have all never played a test in India. Of those I'd back Hussey, Symonds, Lee and maybe Clark to perform but I'm not sure about the others.

Also Ponting's record in India is absolutely abysmal, an average of 12 from 8 tests is tailender stuff and points to a very poor player of spin. You can bet that he'll be facing nothing but offspin for weeks before this series, he can't let Bhaji get on top of him again. Ponting's performance could be key to how Australia fare; Hayden can't hit all the runs every time and with so little experience around him he needs to step up. This tour will also be key as to how Ponting is remembered as a player, if he really wants to cement a place as a great batsmen he has to hit a lot of runs this time round, after all India is often the ultimate test of an Aussie batsman (like perhaps South Africa is for Indian batsmen). I remember watching him in 2001 and he just looked completely lost at the crease. I'm not so sure it was bad form in that last series, I think he was outplayed at first with good bowling and then his confidence went. The truth is ponting has always consistently murdered poor to to medium quality bowling (like when India came in 2003/04 the bowling attack was a joke and Ponting just laid into them, same in in 2006 ashes) but has really struggled against top quality stuff, especially spin. Gilchrist and Mcgrath will be sorely missed this series in particular. I reckon Michael Clarke is going to have another top series with the ball and bat. I wonder if they'll pick Katich ahead of Jaques? He's definitely a better player, and his spin is useful too, it's just the age thing.

I reckon at least one match will be drawn. 2-1 to India or 1-1 all. Going to be an absolutely cracking series. Aaarrrrrrrgghhhhh I can't wait!

 

[Richard]

I reckon at least one match will be drawn.

If so, hopefully through a match being played-out rather than a repeat of Chennai 2004/05 and a day being lost thus depriving us of a near-certain result.

 

[silentstriker]

To describe Dhoni?

Haha yea, he has had two dire ones as well. One of them was so obvious that it wasn't even funny. Though he's got a long way to go to reach the Golden Standard. I don't necessarily mind it, the more cheating that is uncovered, the more likely we'll be moving away from the luddites who run cricket and to a sensible use of technology.

 

[Burgey]

I think this series is going to depend so much on whether India has a fully fit side. With both sides at full strength I'd tip India as favourites but not by much. Ishant Sharma and Zaheer Khan are the only Indian pace bowlers who've looked remotely effective in India since Sreenath left and they'll need them both fit and firing (unlikely TBH). They'll also need the batting at full strength to match the Aussies (whose bowlers can bat too) and they desperately need to find an answer against Hayden who loves batting against India. A lot will depend on Bhaji and Kumble.

This Australian bowling attack just doesn't have the teeth it used to and without a real spin threat (other than the wonderous Michael Clarke....6/9...bloody hell...) it's hard to see them winning over a 4 test series. This team is also desperately short on test experience in India; Jaques, Hussey, Symonds, Haddin, Casson (if he's picked), Johnson, Lee and Clark have all never played a test in India. Of those I'd back Hussey, Symonds, Lee and maybe Clark to perform but I'm not sure about the others.

Also Ponting's record in India is absolutely abysmal, an average of 12 from 8 tests is tailender stuff and points to a very poor player of spin. You can bet that he'll be facing nothing but offspin for weeks before this series, he can't let Bhaji get on top of him again. Ponting's performance could be key to how Australia fare; Hayden can't hit all the runs every time and with so little experience around him he needs to step up. This tour will also be key as to how Ponting is remembered as a player, if he really wants to cement a place as a great batsmen he has to hit a lot of runs this time round, after all India is often the ultimate test of an Aussie batsman (like perhaps South Africa is for Indian batsmen). I remember watching him in 2001 and he just looked completely lost at the crease. I'm not so sure it was bad form in that last series, I think he was outplayed at first with good bowling and then his confidence went. The truth is ponting has always consistently murdered poor to to medium quality bowling (like when India came in 2003/04 the bowling attack was a joke and Ponting just laid into them, same in in 2006 ashes) but has really struggled against top quality stuff, especially spin. Gilchrist and Mcgrath will be sorely missed this series in particular. I reckon Michael Clarke is going to have another top series with the ball and bat. I wonder if they'll pick Katich ahead of Jaques? He's definitely a better player, and his spin is useful too, it's just the age thing.

I reckon at least one match will be drawn. 2-1 to India or 1-1 all. Going to be an absolutely cracking series. Aaarrrrrrrgghhhhh I can't wait!

Ponting struggles against spin? He can play Murali with his willy!!

He's struggled v Indian spinners in India, but I seem to recall him scoring several runs in 03/04 out here vs them. You say that attack was mediocre, but iirc Kumble was 1st choice spinner with HBS his back up. In other words, the same spinners.

I agree with you, though, that he would desperately want a telling series in India to set his record straight.

FWIW I don't agree he's just a murderer of mediocre bowling, but it's a matter of opinion I guess.

Welcome to the forum BTW.

 

[whitedazzler]

who cares if they can or cant, heroics whered that come from

 

[Spinksy]

Will they beat India in India in the upcoming 4 test series for the Border Gavaskar trophy ?

Yes, I think that they will.

 

[oitoitoi]

Ponting struggles against spin? He can play Murali with his willy!!

He's struggled v Indian spinners in India, but I seem to recall him scoring several runs in 03/04 out here vs them. You say that attack was mediocre, but iirc Kumble was 1st choice spinner with HBS his back up. In other words, the same spinners.

Well that series was played on some very, very good batting surfaces and the key thing is it was in Australia. The extent to which he's been poor in India on turning tracks is shocking. He really looked out of place at the crease in 2001 against Harbhajan.

I suppose it's like saying it's one thing facing a fast bowler at the Antigua Recreation Ground and smacking him round the park, however to do so on a lively WACA surface is a different matter altogether. You would only really say he's a good player of genuine fast bowling if he scored runs on the WACA surface, similarly good players of spin can play spinners in India, not just a flat surface at Adelaide for example. Sorry if I'm being unclear.

 

[Top_Cat]

Well that series was played on some very, very good batting surfaces and the key thing is it was in Australia. The extent to which he's been poor in India on turning tracks is shocking. He really looked out of place at the crease in 2001 against Harbhajan.

I suppose it's like saying it's one thing facing a fast bowler at the Antigua Recreation Ground and smacking him round the park, however to do so on a lively WACA surface is a different matter altogether. You would only really say he's a good player of genuine fast bowling if he scored runs on the WACA surface, similarly good players of spin can play spinners in India, not just a flat surface at Adelaide for example. Sorry if I'm being unclear.

The key reasons why I personally disagree with the Ponting = poor player of spin line of thought lies with the following;

1) Ponting has been successful against top-notch spinners (Murali, Saqlain, etc.) in spin-friendly conditions away frome home where others struggled. It's specifically his tours to India which have been the problem

2) In his only full tours to India, he's really only struggled against two bowlers specifically who also bowled brilliantly to the other batsmen. Kumble in 1997, Harbhajan in 2001. Both of those two got the better of him and, especially in 2001, Ponting looked totally shot. The key point is that it wasn't as if an unknown or bloke who was belted by the other batsmen made Ponting look foolish; he came up against two spinners at the very top of their games and he wasn't up to it but neither were most of the other batsmen on both tours. 2001 in particular demonstrates just how well Harbhajan bowled because Ponting came into the series hitting the ball well. As did many of the Aussie batsmen, in fact.

The point of it all is that it's not some random Joe Spinner in turning conditions which have wrecked Ponting; excellent bowlers did it. If he scores well on his next Indian tour, it'll underscore that.

 

[shankar]

He's struggled v Indian spinners in India, but I seem to recall him scoring several runs in 03/04 out here vs them. You say that attack was mediocre, but iirc Kumble was 1st choice spinner with HBS his back up. In other words, the same spinners.

Only Kumble. HBS unwisely played the first test carrying a finger injury, made it worse and and had to sit out the rest of the series.

However, I don't think Ponting will have any problems scoring runs in India this time. The type of wickets he faced in 2001 are nowhere to be seen. Almost all the wickets seem to have changed in character - Now even when there is turn it's very slow turn. And often the wickets don't breakup as the test match progresses. Many batsmen who would have had a tough time of it in the earlier Indian wickets have come and scored runs in the last 5 years.

 

[Top_Cat]

Only Kumble. HBS unwisely played the first test carrying a finger injury, made it worse and and had to sit out the rest of the series.

However, I don't think Ponting will have any problems scoring runs in India this time. The type of wickets he faced in 2001 are nowhere to be seen. Almost all the wickets seem to have changed in character - Now even when there is turn it's very slow turn. And often the wickets don't breakup as the test match progresses. Many batsmen who would have had a tough time of it in the earlier Indian wickets have come and scored runs in the last 5 years.

Not to mention HBS and Kumble skills have been somewhat dulled.

As far as I'm concerned, Ponting shouldn't be too worried about what people say about his batting in India. He's already been judged. Wanna know how I know that? Because if he averages 60 this time, watch as people will use the slower pitches and lesser bowling attack to dull the shine off any runs he scores.

 

[Richard]

He's struggled v Indian spinners in India, but I seem to recall him scoring several runs in 03/04 out here vs them.

Scoring runs against Indian fingerspinners and not-much-spin wristspinners in Australia on pitches that don't turn much if at all is no revelation of skill against good spin-bowling.

Ponting has indeed scored plenty of runs against Muralitharan, which is odd TSTL. But the ball has to be turning for it to be a particularly difficult test of a player's spin-playing calibre.

 

[honestbharani]

Not to mention HBS and Kumble skills have been somewhat dulled.

As far as I'm concerned, Ponting shouldn't be too worried about what people say about his batting in India. He's already been judged. Wanna know how I know that? Because if he averages 60 this time, watch as people will use the slower pitches and lesser bowling attack to dull the shine off any runs he scores.

somewhat agree with that. But I do think he will go up at least in "some" people's estimation if he is to have a really big series.


FWIW, I think he will have a middling series, with a couple of big scores and a couple of single digits evening themselves out...

 

[Top_Cat]

Scoring runs against Indian fingerspinners and not-much-spin wristspinners in Australia on pitches that don't turn much if at all is no revelation of skill against good spin-bowling.

Ponting has indeed scored plenty of runs against Muralitharan, which is odd TSTL. But the ball has to be turning for it to be a particularly difficult test of a player's spin-playing calibre.

Don't forget he's scored well against Murali in spin-friendly conditions too.

But then again, how is it odd, though? Judging by his record at home and away against spinners in spin-friendly conditions, that he's failed so miserably in India is what's odd. But only by comparison; it's not odd at all for a top-shelf batsman to have a bogey bowler or two.