Pietersen: will he become an all time great ?

[Salamuddin]

Or instead will he he remembered as a very good batsman but not quite one of the greats ?

 

[Fiery]

I think so

 

[Manee]

Or instead will he he remembered as a very good batsman but not quite one of the greats ?

It is truly in his hands, whether he can get on top of bowlers more often than not or whether he becomes too wreckless in an attempt to do this.

 

[sideshowtim]

Not sure. It's possible. He has had a great start to his career, but his attacking style of play (sometimes too attacking for the situation) leads me to believe that there will be a time that he has a very severe form slump...Coupled with the fact that many of his hundreds have included multiple chances of dismissal from the opposition...I think he will do it tough pretty soon.

He'll have to average more than 72 though. Ponting is still denied from 'greatest' lists with such an average in the modern era, so hopefully people are consistent and deny Pietersen a place if he averages that much.

 

[Richard]

It is truly in his hands, whether he can get on top of bowlers more often than not or whether he becomes too wreckless in an attempt to do this.

Superfluous w.

 

[Richard]

Not sure. It's possible. He has had a great start to his career, but his attacking style of play (sometimes too attacking for the situation) leads me to believe that there will be a time that he has a very severe form slump...Coupled with the fact that many of his hundreds have included multiple chances of dismissal from the opposition...I think he will do it tough pretty soon.

Yeah, have been meaning to do a first-chance average for Pietersen so far in his career for ages now. He's played a fair few superb innings, but there's no doubt he's not done anywhere near so well so far as it's been made to look like he has.

Must get onto that soon, should be a 10-minute job.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I personally think he will. He has an absolutely amazing eye and plays with a straight bat. If he could just learn a little discretion he'd be the complete batsman.

It's not even about scoring quickly, he just seems to hate having his runs dried up and often ends up playing shots like the drive that lead to his downfall in the 2nd innings of the third test.

 

[Manee]

He'll have to average more than 72 though. Ponting is still denied from 'greatest' lists with such an average in the modern era, so hopefully people are consistent and deny Pietersen a place if he averages that much.

It is not all about averages, it is about the quality of opposition and there is nothing saying that there will be as much of a pace bowling decline as recently, with the likes of Sajid Mahmood, Mohammad Sami, VRV Singh playing Test cricket and the genuine lack of star fast bowlers on the scene. The current roster does not even compare to the likes of Holding, Lillee, Thompson, Roberts, and later, Ambrose, Pollock, Walsh, Waqar and Wasim, who all peaked before Ponting's career really took off/started. However, one cannot discredit Ponting's achievements of sheer run scoring but the quality of opposition makes comparisons between earlier generations harder.

 

[Manee]

Superfluous w.

Damn, I always get that one wrong

PS: Superfluous = Great word.

 

[Perm]

He'll have to average more than 72 though. Ponting is still denied from 'greatest' lists with such an average in the modern era, so hopefully people are consistent and deny Pietersen a place if he averages that much.

Somebody is awfully bitter

What exactly do you mean by 'the modern era', I assumed you meant from 2000 onwards but you must not if you say Ponting averages 72, unless it was an exaggeration. FTR Ponting averages 65 in this decade, the second highest for batsmen who have played more than 20 innings.

 

[sideshowtim]

Somebody is awfully bitter

What exactly do you mean by 'the modern era', I assumed you meant from 2000 onwards but you must not if you say Ponting averages 72, unless it was an exaggeration. FTR Ponting averages 65 in this decade, the second highest for batsmen who have played more than 20 innings.

I think it's since 2002 that he averages 72. I'm not sure what he has to do, averaging 72 over 6 years is pretty damn impressive.

Coupled with the fact that he has indeed scored Test centuries against the likes of Walsh, Ambrose, Donald, Waqar, Wasim, Pollock, hell he's even scored a few against McGrath at state level...I just don't see what more he could do to earn 'great' status.

 

[Perm]

I'm pretty sure that Kevin Pietersen won't be remembered as an all-time great. The way he plays has shown us in the past that he gives catching opportunities, and despite these let-offs still only averages 50. A good acheivement yes, but not the kind of average you would expect from a potential all-time great batsmen who has received several chances in most of his big innings.

He also has to improve his away record markedly. Currently he averages less than 40 when batting outside of England, and I think his record on the subcontinent is even worse than that. I think he will be remembered as one of England's best modern batsmen, but not on a world scale, where he will be more widely known for entertainment.

 

[cricman]

If Sub-contient players are held to the standard that they need to do outside Asia to be considered great, I think KP needs to prove he can Bat on the sub-contient to be considered great as well.

 

[silentstriker]

No, I don't think he will. I think Cook has a better chance of that.

 

[sideshowtim]

No, I don't think he will. I think Cook has a better chance of that.

AWTA.

 

[Perm]

I think it's since 2002 that he averages 72. I'm not sure what he has to do, averaging 72 over 6 years is pretty damn impressive.

Coupled with the fact that he has indeed scored Test centuries against the likes of Walsh, Ambrose, Donald, Waqar, Wasim, Pollock, hell he's even scored a few against McGrath at state level...I just don't see what more he could do to earn 'great' status.

If my calculations are correct, then since the start of 2002 he has averaged 69.59 against Test standard opponents, which is very impressive. Mind you, it doesn't look quite as good when you consider Mohammad Yousuf (60.18), Jacques Kallis (64.60) and Rahul Dravid (60.81) have also averaged over 60. Not to mention the host of other batsmen all averaging over 50 since 2002, of which there are a few.

There isn't anything more Ponting can do, it's up to those who are judging him. I for one don't like judging players until after they have retired, but I would rank Ponting as a great.

 

[Perm]

No, I don't think he will. I think Cook has a better chance of that.

AWTA.

Why do you think that? I think Cook will be a fine Test batsmen, 45+ average, but he won't be as good as Pietersen.

 

[Richard]

No, I don't think he will. I think Cook has a better chance of that.

Yeah have always rated Cook's chances as better, but he too has had more than his moments of fallow. As well, it should be added, as benefiting a little more than most (though nowhere near as much as Pietersen) from let-offs.

 

[Richard]

Why do you think that? I think Cook will be a fine Test batsmen, 45+ average, but he won't be as good as Pietersen.

Because Cook is arguably technically superior (though even he has his drawbacks) and certainly far superior in terms of personal tempo-setting - never once has he given-off an air of giving a damn about how fast he scores.

Pietersen has more than once looked like he's got out simply due to the "how dare they think they can stop me scoring at 50-per-100-balls?" curse. Not something that's useful in a batsman. Ponting and one or two others often give-off that air too, but for whatever reasons it gets them out far less and after they've scored far more runs.

 

[Woodster]

I think the style in which Pietersen bats means people are more inclined to rave about his innings than Cook. A 50 from Pietersen will generally bring out superlatives from people because of the sheer extravagance of some of his strokes, while Cook's will generally be a gritty innings that will involve some stylish cuts and hooks.

On the original question, yes I think Pietersen has already demonstrated that he is capable of reaching such status, but of course these things are attained by longevity. If I was pushed I would suggest he will average around 50 by the end of his career, including many match winning innings, and in the view of many Englishmen, yes an all time great.