How good COULD Pakistan be?

[gunner]

asif has also done what no other international bowler has done and that includes warne and mcgrath and also murali

he has made pieterson's stay at the crease hell and pieterson couldnt wait to get off strike
i remember in one of the odi's he actually toyed with pieterson and pieterson lost it and lashed out only to be caught at third man by rana naved

he's got what it takes to bowl at the death but he just needs to add abit of muscle/speed. speed will come as he matures and gets used to the demands cos he has bene off for a long time because vs india he was bowling at around 85-86 mph

 

[Richard]

Maybe not bowl him straight out, but trying to make him bowl in the death overs is a big mistake. He doesn't have the skills for that particular job yet and shouldn't bowl in the last 10 overs until his does.

Yes, you could either give him 10 off the reel or 7 or 8 then another 2 or 3 from about the 30th over or so. The sort of job Pollock has been - sensibly - being given for the last couple of years.

It's a complete waste to have him bowling at the death. You might as well give those death overs to someone else who'll be equally expensive, than give someone else the overs in the middle and have both go for plenty.

 

[Perm]

asif has also done what no other international bowler has done and that includes warne and mcgrath and also murali

he has made pieterson's stay at the crease hell and pieterson couldnt wait to get off strike
i remember in one of the odi's he actually toyed with pieterson and pieterson lost it and lashed out only to be caught at third man by rana naved

he's got what it takes to bowl at the death but he just needs to add abit of muscle/speed. speed will come as he matures and gets used to the demands cos he has bene off for a long time because vs india he was bowling at around 85-86 mph

So he has had the better of Pietersen, that doesn't automatically make him a good bowler or anything. Pietersen will struggle against some bowlers during his career, it would be foolish to think otherwise. Pietersen has struggled against Stuart Clarke, Harbhajan Singh and Danish Kaneria in the past also, does this make them special?

What have you seen that suggest his does have what it takes to bowl at the death in ODI cricket? He has been off for a long time due to the drug concerns that still cloud his selection, perhaps he was trying to add a bit of muscle and speed the quick way instead of using hard work?

 

[Richard]

So he has had the better of Pietersen, that doesn't automatically make him a good bowler or anything. Pietersen will struggle against some bowlers during his career, it would be foolish to think otherwise. Pietersen has struggled against Stuart Clarke, Harbhajan Singh and Danish Kaneria in the past also, does this make them special?

You can't have missed the fact that Asif caused him more obvious problems than anyone else has to date, though. No, that in itself isn't especially notable, any more than Andre Nel's propensity to dismiss Brian Lara was, but it's far from the only thing Asif has done. It's more the icing on the cake.

 

[Perm]

You can't have missed the fact that Asif caused him more obvious problems than anyone else has to date, though. No, that in itself isn't especially notable, any more than Andre Nel's propensity to dismiss Brian Lara was, but it's far from the only thing Asif has done. It's more the icing on the cake.

No I didn't miss that fact. I just don't see how relevant it is really, especially when Stuart Clark also gave Pietersen a lot of trouble in last years Ashes series. I would've thought that dominating a batsman of Rahul Dravid's calibre is far more of an acheivement than taking Kevin Pietersen's scalp for Mohammad Asif, especially when one is an all-time great and the other has only played 25 matches.

 

[Richard]

It is. With Dravid, AFAIK, though, it's just dismissing him once. With Pietersen it was causing him all sorts of problems in Tests and ODIs for several innings in a row.

And while Clark gave Pietersen (and everyone else) problems in The Ashes, I don't think it was as obvious as it was with Asif. Not least because Pietersen played him out as often as he was dismissed.

 

[gunner]

my point is,
pieterson has been treating other bowlers with disdain
while asif as dismissed him for 2 1st ball ducks on the 2 balls he has faced him in test cricket and 20/20 cricket.

also i wasnt trying to make him out to be a great bowler or anything,
just pointing out the fact that if he adds abit more speed and muscle then he can bowl in the death overs succesfully

 

[Perm]

my point is,
pieterson has been treating other bowlers with disdain
while asif as dismissed him for 2 1st ball ducks on the 2 balls he has faced him in test cricket and 20/20 cricket.

also i wasnt trying to make him out to be a great bowler or anything,
just pointing out the fact that if he adds abit more speed and muscle then he can bowl in the death overs succesfully

Twenty20 cricket counts for so little in my opinion that it's not even worth discussing.

Asif doesn't required speed and muscle, he needs a decent yorker. Pretty simple if you ask me.

 

[gunner]

yorkers arent the be all and end all of death overs you know
batsmen learn to score runs off yorkers too and you cant hit them in the same spot every ball
you need variety and at the moment asif doesnt have the variety

 

[Perm]

yorkers arent the be all and end all of death overs you know
batsmen learn to score runs off yorkers too and you cant hit them in the same spot every ball
you need variety and at the moment asif doesnt have the variety

The best weapon to possess at the death is a yorker. Asif doesn't have enough variety, just like I mentioned earlier in this thread but once he gets a decent bouncer, yorker and slower ball then he could be a damne effective ODI bowler. Until that happens however, he won't be anything special, especially if he keeps getting bowled during the slog.

 

[Richard]

If you've got a good Yorker, especially if you can pitch it outside off (without going too wide) and swing it in, you don't need much else.

Few bowlers at the current time possess such a thing. It's a mark of that that Shane Bond's considered a "good" death bowler.

 

[gunner]

The best weapon to possess at the death is a yorker. Asif doesn't have enough variety, just like I mentioned earlier in this thread but once he gets a decent bouncer, yorker and slower ball then he could be a damne effective ODI bowler. Until that happens however, he won't be anything special, especially if he keeps getting bowled during the slog.

then what are we arguing about?
im basically saying the same thing,

i just thought you were saying all he needs is a yorker and nothing else

 

[Perm]

then what are we arguing about?
im basically saying the same thing,

i just thought you were saying all he needs is a yorker and nothing else

You were arguing that he needed to improve his speed and his muscle which I felt was pretty irrelevant, as long as he had a good yorker then his speed is fine and his strength is fine.

 

[gunner]

but he does need abit more speed and msucle
he gets tired very quickly and also after 5 overs his speed goes down to 78mph
he should be hitting 87-88 mph consistently and asif has himself said that he can hit that sort of speed once he adds abit of muscle

 

[Perm]

Getting too muscular and bulky may be harmful for his rhythm though. I agree he does need to put on a bit of weight, because every time I have seen him bowl his eyes look sunken into his face and he looks genuinely ill.

 

[Manee]

Against the might of the MCC bowling attack it must be added . I'm fairly confident that if Asif was playing, things would've been different.

Lol. tu shey.

 

[Perm]

Lol. tu shey.

Touche actually

EDIT: It is meant to have a wee line above the 'e' I think, but I can't figure out how to work that.

 

[Fiery]

tu shey

 

[Jamee999]

Touche actually

EDIT: It is meant to have a wee line above the 'e' I think, but I can't figure out how to work that.

Touché.

Ctrl+Alt+e

(or Alt Gr+e I think)

 

[Richard]

Lol. tu shey.

hush hush, eye2eye.