How good COULD Pakistan be?

[Jono]

There is still a theory among some Pakistani experts that Gul is better then Asif, Asif is seen by some as a one trick pony who is lethal with the new ball especially if the pitch offers something but looses the plot and gets deflated if the batsman attacks him whilst Gul though not as lethal as Asif with the new ball but is not that far behind and then he can use his extra yard of pace and reverse swing as a plan B if the batsman attacks him.

Not discarding your post or anything (I've heard you say that before), but to me that is just one of those things to say to look knowledgeable and have a different opinion. To me its obvious that Asif is the better bowler, and I'm a Gul fan too, but Asif is just superior.

People often stay stuff like this in various aspects. I don't expect non-Australians to get this, but theories like "Kerr is actually better than Judd, Judd just gets the attention" often make me roll my eyes, because its a difference of opinion for the sake of being different, at least IMO.

Again, I'm not saying that of you Xuhaib, but nothing at all seen at international level suggests Gul is, or can be a better bowler than Asif.

 

[Manee]

What? Asif moves it both ways quite regularly and gets more bounce than most bowlers. I don't see how you could go for the slogging strategy against him without getting owned 9 times out of 10.

I think that on a dead pitch he could go for quite a few runs (see Vs Sri Lanka in Abu Dhabi) because he bowls length very often and could go for a few in the latter overs of a game.

Could be wrong, but I don't think Asif is quite as perfect as some people have him as.

 

[deeps]

A top-class bowler would almost always have felt he had a chance against Lara, at certain stages in his career. That impression was rarely given with Tendulkar - between 1990 and 2002, you were almost always certain that your only way was to produce a special ball. Of course, he did play bad strokes, but much less often than Lara.

And then there was Steve Waugh

 

[Perm]

Could be wrong, but I don't think Asif is quite as perfect as some people have him as.

I don't think anybody here has painted Asif as being perfect, especially considering the doping speculation that he is/was under. It's quite clear to me that he is a special bowler and has all the tools to succeed at Test level and take over from Glenn McGrath as the leading fast bowler in the world. He does have his weaknesses and I don't think his ODI bowling is anything special, but as a whole I think it's pretty well known that he has the potential to be a great.

 

[Manee]

I don't think anybody here has painted Asif as being perfect, especially considering the doping speculation that he is/was under. It's quite clear to me that he is a special bowler and has all the tools to succeed at Test level and take over from Glenn McGrath as the leading fast bowler in the world. He does have his weaknesses and I don't think his ODI bowling is anything special, but as a whole I think it's pretty well known that he has the potential to be a great.

This is what I was getting at though. His ODI bowling, his length is one that can go for runs on a dead pitch in ODIs. That was my point all along. He does have the potential to be a fantastic bowler and actually get Sehwag out every ball (his stock ball being the off cutting length ball ).

 

[Perm]

This is what I was getting at though. His ODI bowling, his length is one that can go for runs on a dead pitch in ODIs. That was my point all along. He does have the potential to be a fantastic bowler and actually get Sehwag out every ball (his stock ball being the off cutting length ball ).

But in the end who cares about ODI cricket?

Being a "one-dimensional" line and length bowler never hurt Glenn McGrath, so why should it hurt Mohammad Asif? I do agree with you however, I don't think that Asif has the variation (bouncer, yorker, slower ball) to be a successful ODI bowler and until he develops these different deliveries then I can see him going for plenty when conditions don't suit. He'll get better batsman than Virender Sehwag out, trust me.

 

[pasag]

Not really convinced Asif is better than Gul in ODIs tbh, (despite the AFL analogy ). In Tests there's no comparison but in ODIs, I'd rather Gul before Asif at this stage. Both heaps early in their careers though and they'll both probably gun it for years to come when the distiction will be a lot clearer in all probablility.

 

[Manee]

But in the end who cares about ODI cricket?

Being a "one-dimensional" line and length bowler never hurt Glenn McGrath, so why should it hurt Mohammad Asif? I do agree with you however, I don't think that Asif has the variation (bouncer, yorker, slower ball) to be a successful ODI bowler and until he develops these different deliveries then I can see him going for plenty when conditions don't suit.

Thanks for understanding what I was saying (seriously)

He'll get better batsman than Virender Sehwag out, trust me.

Renako Morton?

 

[Perm]

Not really convinced Asif is better than Gul in ODIs tbh, (despite the AFL analogy ). In Tests there's no comparison but in ODIs, I'd rather Gul before Asif at this stage. Both heaps early in their careers though and they'll both probably gun it for years to come when the distiction will be a lot clearer in all probablility.

Gul has a pretty effective yorker and that is the major reason I rate him above Asif in ODI's.

 

[Perm]

Renako Morton?

He has already dismissed Rahul Dravid, Sachin Tendulkar and Jacques Kallis in Test cricket and they are three of the best batsman of the current era. Not to mention a whole heap of pretty good ones like Laxman, Sangakarra, Pietersen etc whose wickets he has also taken.

 

[Manee]

Lol, it was just a dig at Sehwag, that's all. I am aware Asif averages something like 20 in Tests with no signs of decline.

 

[Perm]

Lol, it was just a dig at Sehwag, that's all. I am aware Asif averages something like 20 in Tests with no signs of decline.

I realised that, yet he has only taken Sehwag's wicket on the one occasion

 

[Manee]

I know this is off topic, but I always defended Sehwag over at planetcricket when I had the chance, but his bad performances have even turned me against him.

Back on topic for Pakistan, I think they need to nerture the seemingly infinate supply of pace bowlers with a pace foundation not unlike the MRF one in India. Pakistani cricketers, although controversial, have a flair to them, not anywhere else will you find a 100mph bowler (Akhtar) and a mindlessly agressive slogger and spinner who can bowl 75mph (Afridi), it is a tough balance to make, but this flair must be maintained, whilst partially taming it into something consistant.

 

[Xuhaib]

But in the end who cares about ODI cricket?

Being a "one-dimensional" line and length bowler never hurt Glenn McGrath, so why should it hurt Mohammad Asif? I do agree with you however, I don't think that Asif has the variation (bouncer, yorker, slower ball) to be a successful ODI bowler and until he develops these different deliveries then I can see him going for plenty when conditions don't suit. He'll get better batsman than Virender Sehwag out, trust me.

Asif has a decent bouncer and recentley seems to be bowling a lot more yorkers though he's not perfected them. I remember watching one of his interview and he said that at school he was always very thick at learning anything related to his studies but when it came to bowling he was always the quickest learner among his mates, I am sure Asif is aware of his shortcoming and with time he will learn develop in to a good ODI bowler since he has one main thing going for him, abundance of natural talent.

 

[Perm]

Asif has a decent bouncer and recentley seems to be bowling a lot more yorkers though he's not perfected them. I remember watching one of his interview and he said that at school he was always very thick at learning anything related to his studies but when it came to bowling he was always the quickest learner among his mates, I am sure Asif is aware of his shortcoming and with time he will learn develop in to a good ODI bowler since he has one main thing going for him, abundance of natural talent.

I'd like to think so as well and I can see it happening in the future. However at the moment I feel he lacks a good yorker and that is one of the reasons why he hasn't had as much success in ODI cricket as he has had in Test matches.

 

[Richard]

I think that on a dead pitch he could go for quite a few runs (see Vs Sri Lanka in Abu Dhabi) because he bowls length very often and could go for a few in the latter overs of a game.

So don't bowl him in the latter overs - give him 10 off the reel.

 

[Richard]

And then there was Steve Waugh

Yep, he was more in the Tendulkar category (at least between 1993 and 2001) too, but he was less "orthodox".

 

[Manee]

Renako Morton?

He had to go and score a hundred didn't he.

 

[Perm]

So don't bowl him in the latter overs - give him 10 off the reel.

Maybe not bowl him straight out, but trying to make him bowl in the death overs is a big mistake. He doesn't have the skills for that particular job yet and shouldn't bowl in the last 10 overs until his does.

 

[Perm]

He had to go and score a hundred didn't he.

Against the might of the MCC bowling attack it must be added . I'm fairly confident that if Asif was playing, things would've been different.