Best pace attack post WC2007

[FBU]

So who are these countries that have strength in depth and who are those bowlers?

 

[Richard]

Hmm, well... South Africa for starters, Australia for another, heck even New Zealand and West Indies... I mean, in theory at least West Indies' first-reserves are Pedro Collins and Jermaine Lawson. Who are unquestionably better than the Plunketts and Mahmoods.

And let's face it - even if they got their picks right... Fidel Edwards is still better than 'em, really.

The stupid thing, of course, is that there are loads of better seam-bowlers around the country than Plunkett and Mahmood.

 

[pup11]

England selectors have tried so many seamers in the last 2 years but noone has really performed (consistently) in that period, which has been one of the main reason for England's slump in form in the last 2 years.

Anyways Richard who are the better seamers you are talking about??

 

[Spitfires_Fan]

Hmm, well... South Africa for starters, Australia for another, heck even New Zealand and West Indies... I mean, in theory at least West Indies' first-reserves are Pedro Collins and Jermaine Lawson. Who are unquestionably better than the Plunketts and Mahmoods.

And let's face it - even if they got their picks right... Fidel Edwards is still better than 'em, really.

The stupid thing, of course, is that there are loads of better seam-bowlers around the country than Plunkett and Mahmood.

Yeah... What Richard said.

South Africa have a core lineup of Pollock, Ntini, Nel, Steyn, with the likes of Kallis, Hall, Van der Wath and probably plenty of others that I've forgotten/don't know about. (Incidentally, what happened to Zondeki? I thought he showed some good potential.)

As already stated earlier in this thread, Australia have Clark, Lee, Tait, Johnson, Gillespie, Hilfenhaus, Watson...

NZ have Bond, Franklin, Oram, Mills, Martin, Gillespie...

England have their main four, supported by Anderson, Mahmood, Plunkett and Broad. After that, you've got Lewis, Kabir Ali, er... Chapple?!

 

[Richard]

England selectors have tried so many seamers in the last 2 years but noone has really performed (consistently) in that period, which has been one of the main reason for England's slump in form in the last 2 years.

Anyways Richard who are the better seamers you are talking about??

Jonathan Lewis being the most obvious case, but Sajid Mahmood is probably the 5th or 6th-best bowler at his own county. Glen Chapple, Dominic Cork, Anderson, Flintoff and Tom Smith are all almost certainly better. Heck, maybe even Kyle Hogg and, shock of shock-horrors, Oliver Newby.

 

[R_D]

Ntini is good but still weak away from home and the rest are sort of okayish, they're also quite similar. England's attack would be better man for man and has more variety.

While Eng's attack is proven itself outside Eng ?
England attack only looks good if Simon Jones is fit and if Harmesion can bowl decently.. both are pretty massive ifs so no Eng won't be better attack. Harmesion proven himself to be useless outside England and massive marks over Jones whether he can get anywhere close to his Ashes form.
If we are talking about ODI matches than close call between SA and Aus attack.

 

[R_D]

In Tests it is England's attack. The others have big problems - like players being practically useless so far. England's attack is more sustained, shame our batting is so unbelievably pathetic.

Thats if they can get all of them on park at the same time.
I'd say SA looks pretty impressive on paper but than again SA seem to struggle every time you take them out of their favourable conditions.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Thats if they can get all of them on park at the same time.
I'd say SA looks pretty impressive on paper but than again SA seem to struggle every time you take them out of their favourable conditions.

Which is what the whole point of this thread was and my resultant posts, so that's not an issue here.

With SA's attack Nel and Steyn average over 30 - people tend to over-rate Nel I think. Pollock just isn't that effective anymore (presumably averages over 30 for the past 3-4 years) and Ntini is good generally but has a very strong bias to playing at home as everyone knows.

Man for man Harmison, Hoggard, Flintoff and Jones are better than SA's four. Then they've also got a much better balance to go with it.

 

[FBU]

Well I am not impressed with the reserves. I would have thought they would have averages in the 20s

Nel 31.16
Steyn 31.54
van der Wath - never played Tests
Tait 42.00
Johnson - never played Tests
Hilfenhaus - never played Tests
Gillespie - never played Tests
Mills - 31.41
Martin 34.30
Collins - 34.63
Lawson - 31.54
Hall - 35.93

 

[Athlai]

An explanation on dear Mills

 

[honestbharani]

Find it hard to look beyond Australia on this, but I guess a full strength England or RSA attack will run them close.

 

[marc71178]

I'd say hard to call it Aus, seeing as there's no evidence that their attack will all be good.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Find it hard to look beyond Australia on this, but I guess a full strength England or RSA attack will run them close.

Err based on what? The fact that they had Warne and McGrath in the past?

In Test cricket their attack looks pretty poor apart from Clark. As for ODIs... who cares, but then they've got Clark who's useless in that and Watson who's no more than a solid option.

 

[Richard]

In Test cricket their attack looks pretty poor apart from Clark.

Yes, Jason Gillespie's so abysmal...

 

[marc71178]

He's done nothing to prove otherwise in the last 2-3 years.

 

[Richard]

Yes, he has - because like it or not, Australian and English domestic cricket is not nothing. Do you really imagine Gillespie has bowled as poorly in the last 18 months as he did in the summer of 2005? I don't, personally, because someone bowling that poorly will go around the park in domestic cricket in either country, especially England. And it's been no longer than 2 years since he last bowled well in Test cricket. Given that he's not played for 18 months (Bangladesh excluded) that means not-too-much. Had he got the chance, he might quite conceivably have done.

 

[marc71178]

So what exactly has he done in the last couple of years to show that he's a top quality Test bowler then?

And if he's bowling so well, how come he's not been deemed good enough to be recalled?

 

[vic_orthdox]

How did Gillespie's year for Yorkshire end up last season? I heard it started off badly, did it get better as it went on, or stay reasonably mediocre?

And I think he went pretty well for South Australia. I think he's being kept on the contracts list as a bit of a security blanket. If all else fails, he might get a run.

 

[marc71178]

36 wickets @ 33.61 over 14 games.

Hardly screams of someone who demands a Test spot.

 

[Gloucefan]

He's taken 10 @ 19.40 so far this season.