Where to for NZ cricket in the next few years?

[Will Scarlet]

I was more meaning using it as a breeding ground for our young talent, kinda like rugby sevens. Send a couple of experienced guys over to guide them though. Maybe a team like:

Vincent and McCullum could be a formidable opening partnership. Both can hit the ball out of the park and both are very quick between the wickets which may prove fustrating for the opposition. Taylor obviously is well suited to 20/20 and Fulton and Styrs provide a solid middle order if the top don't fire. Macka and Oram batting together would provide nightmares for the opposition. Bond and Mills are our two best seamers and and Mills especially is very economical. Patel is outstanding at strangling and getting wickets, likewise Vettori. Vettori will get good high pressure training which will be good for the ODI WC in four years time.

It would be OK to play a team of youngsters in 20/20 international because, like rugby 7s, it's not important.

The problem with Vincent and McCullum (or Vincent and Fleming) opening together is that both tend to be either off or on; we couldn't afford for them to both be off. That's why I'd have Fulton, Cumming, or Papps at the other end to provide some stability. And it's not as though those players are the slowest scorers going around.

 

[Smudge]

Gaffaney has pretty much retired - only plays some List A games and a bit of Twenty20.

 

[James]

Francis,

This is a general warning about your posting in the thread Where to for NZ cricket in the next few years?

Posting and then deleting your post one after the other is unacceptable, and affects the discussion for other members. Don't do it please.

 

[Athlai]

The McCullum Vincent opening partnership would be very interesting to see. I think with the world cup behind us and the next world cup in front of the team. New Zealand should feel they have more time to develop McCullum at the top of the order,

I also think McMillan should be a bit cautious about his place in the team, because Franklin seems to have been as handy with the bat and with a few years experience might be even better. (Franklin is also better with the ball... probably)

So whats up for grabs? What could use some changing?

The secured positions in the team I think are:

Lou Vincent
??????????
Ross Taylor (75%)
Stephen Fleming
Scott Styris
Jacob Oram
??????????
Brendon McCullum
James Franklin (75%)
Daniel Vettori
Shane Bond


This team can be rearranged in all kinds of ways, the batting depth is definitely something the New Zealand team will continue to benefit from with Fleming beginning his sign off.

Our focus for the future should be bowlers. And personally I would like to see Patel as a permanent member of the squad. Whether to be used in tandem with Vettori or to be thrown in as an opening pressure bowler. The team should definitely be looking for some variety to their bowling and I am personally rather optimistic about the future.

 

[_Ed_]

Is that for ODIs? If so, Mills should be secure when fit.

And his Test bowling average isn't too bad either actually.

 

[Athlai]

Is that for ODIs? If so, Mills should be secure when fit.

And his Test bowling average isn't too bad either actually.

Ah Mills! The amount of injuries this team gets is horrible. Felt like years since I last saw him play.

 

[Pup Clarke]

When everyone is fit here are IMO what the test and OD sides should look like...

Test

Michael Papps
Craig Cumming
Ross Taylor
Stephen Fleming
Scott Styris
Jacob Oram
Brendon McCullum
James Franklin
Daniel Vettori
Shane Bond
Chris Martin

OD

Lou Vincent
Stephen Fleming
Ross Taylor
Scott Styris
Peter Fulton
Jacob Oram
Brendon McCullum
James Franklin
Daniel Vettori
Shane Bond
Jeetan Patel

 

[Flem274*]

When everyone is fit here are IMO what the test and OD sides should look like...

Test

Michael Papps
Craig Cumming
Ross Taylor
Stephen Fleming
Scott Styris
Jacob Oram
Brendon McCullum
James Franklin
Daniel Vettori
Shane Bond
Chris Martin

OD

Lou Vincent
Stephen Fleming
Ross Taylor
Scott Styris
Peter Fulton
Jacob Oram
Brendon McCullum
James Franklin
Daniel Vettori
Shane Bond
Jeetan Patel

Taylor is'nt a No.3 in FC cricket so he should definitely not be there in tests. Chris Martin? His batting might be funny to watch but really his bowling can go for plenty and we already have a potentialy expensive bowler in Franklin. though it could be argued that Martin deserves a go after his good domestic form. Fleming shouldn't open the batting either. Apart from that there is some good selections in there. What the new coach should do, assuming we get one is put down the names of players he wants, get them all together and start developing the team. We could do some trial games, the teams could be:

test team A : The probables

Papps
Vincent
Fleming
Fulton
Styris
Oram
McCullum
Franklin
Vettori
Mills
Bond

Test team B: The possibles

Cumming
How/Ingram
Sinclair
H Marshall
Taylor
C McMillan
Hopkins/McGlashan
Patel
O'Brien
J McMillan
Martin

Test team C: NZ Under 19's

We could do the same for the ODI side

ODI side A

Papps
Vincent
Taylor
Fulton
Styris
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Mills
Patel
Bond

ODI side B

Ryder
Cumming
Sinclair
Fleming
Marshall
C McMillan
Hopkins/McGlashan
N McCullum
Franklin
Diamanti?
J McMillan

Fleming in this side because after relinquishing the captaincy it might be time for him to focus on tests, if we ever play them again. Once again both teams would play the Under 19's.

 

[The Big Cheese]

I think uv got it bang on there flemo!

Taylor definitely has potential but should not be first drop in a test match at the tender age of 23 (or 24 or something). This is where fleming should stay in tests. Fulton on the other hand, has proven himself on the first class scene averaging mid 40s (taylor is 36 or something) and if he was not cruelly forced the opening job v SA he probably would have made a good start to his test career already. I am eagerly anticipating the tests against England next (nz) summer, so our young players can get some test experience against teams other than sri lanka.

The only point i would like to throw out there is of Jamie How. From what iv seen of this guy, he has class about him. If it weren't for ol' Slinga Malinga, i think he would have had a better start to his test career and ODI career also. One to watch in my opinion.

Oh and one other thing. Can we be sure Vincent wants to open the batting in tests? Last test matches he played in were the sri lanka ones two seasons ago i think and he batted at no. 4 there. I realise Vincent has opened in the past, but i am still not convinced about his ability to play the new ball with good proficiency.

 

[Flem274*]

I think uv got it bang on there flemo!

Taylor definitely has potential but should not be first drop in a test match at the tender age of 23 (or 24 or something). This is where fleming should stay in tests. Fulton on the other hand, has proven himself on the first class scene averaging mid 40s (taylor is 36 or something) and if he was not cruelly forced the opening job v SA he probably would have made a good start to his test career already. I am eagerly anticipating the tests against England next (nz) summer, so our young players can get some test experience against teams other than sri lanka.

The only point i would like to throw out there is of Jamie How. From what iv seen of this guy, he has class about him. If it weren't for ol' Slinga Malinga, i think he would have had a better start to his test career and ODI career also. One to watch in my opinion.

Oh and one other thing. Can we be sure Vincent wants to open the batting in tests? Last test matches he played in were the sri lanka ones two seasons ago i think and he batted at no. 4 there. I realise Vincent has opened in the past, but i am still not convinced about his ability to play the new ball with good proficiency.

I actualy remembered Vincent's preferences after posting butI think we need How to develop just a bit longer in FC cricket. Vincent is a team man and as we don't have many top order options atm I'm sure he would take one for the team if required. He can move into the middle order later after all.

 

[The Big Cheese]

I actualy remembered Vincent's preferences after posting butI think we need How to develop just a bit longer in FC cricket. Vincent is a team man and as we don't have many top order options atm I'm sure he would take one for the team if required. He can move into the middle order later after all.

Yeah thats a good point actually. How can't be any better at opening than what Vincent is now. So for the future, maybe after retirement of flem and styris nz batting could look like this:
1. papps
2. how
3. vincent
4. taylor
5. fulton
oram mcculum etc etc
(p.s. It has an inexperienced look to it doesnt it!)

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah thats a good point actually. How can't be any better at opening than what Vincent is now. So for the future, maybe after retirement of flem and styris nz batting could look like this:
1. papps
2. how
3. vincent
4. taylor
5. fulton
oram mcculum etc etc
(p.s. It has an inexperienced look to it doesnt it!)

Styris is only 31 I believe, so we should get some more good scores out of him yet.

Vincent at No.3 would be good fun, especially if he gets one of his days where he gets away with everything.

Taylor shouldn't be at four, at least not yet. Fulton would be a good solid player to have there. Actualy depending on how the side develops, Taylor could almost do a Gilchrist role at 6 or 7 and destroy opposition bowling attacks towards the end. Also, wouldn't it make opposition fans hate him if he came in and blasted the opposition out of the park after one of our annoying 50/6 type collapses?

Yes it's inexperienced but it's got alot of talent. Fulton in particular has impressed me wiht his coolness and calmness in nasty situations during the WC. He and Styris with Macka and Fleming chipping in now and again was our batting order basically.

 

[Bahnz]

New Zealand's biggest trouble over the next few years will be in respect to bowling. For all the promise that Gillespie showed earlier in the season, we've yet to find a truly top class first change pace bowler. If McMillan can ever stay fit for more than 2 or 3 weeks, I'd like to see him given a go, he looke pretty sharp in a 20/20 match I saw earlier this year. We also need to find some young bowling talent, cause lets face it Bondy isn't getting any younger. That means plenty of opportunities on A tours and in domestic cricket for the likes of Harvie, Burtt, Bennett, Davis and Southee. Otherwise things look pretty good

Ideal ODI Side
Vincent
Fleming
Taylor
Styris
McMillan
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Mills
Bond
Patel/Gillespie/????

Unlucky: Fulton - how many times in the history of New Zealand cricket has a guy with an average of nearly 36 struggled to make it into the starting 11?

Ideal test side

Papps
How/Cumming
Fleming
Styris
Taylor
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Franklin
Bond
Martin

Soon... Jesse Ryder and Neil Broom. Now that we've got the world cup out of the way, it's time to blood some of the younger ones. We all know Ryder should be one of our greatest ever, if he reign himself in a bit, and Broom just had an outstanding season for Otago, so even if they don't play, they should be in the tour party to South Africa at the end of the year, to get a taste of what the international environment is like.

 

[pasag]

Francis being a gimp, saw the last couple before he deleted them and if someone reported it the mods would be able to see them as well, which is something he probably didn't realise.

Lol, totally by accident I came across this from a while back:

http://forum.cricketweb.net/showthread.php?t=17704

 

[vic_orthdox]

Lol, totally by accident I came across this from a while back:

http://forum.cricketweb.net/showthread.php?t=17704

Some of the deleted posts by Francis, the ones that aren't even quoted, are truly dire.

 

[_Ed_]

Ideal ODI Side
Vincent
Fleming
Taylor
Styris
McMillan
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Mills
Bond
Patel/Gillespie/????

Believe it or not I'm actually starting to warm to Franklin in ODIs, the guy who just a month ago I thought shouldn't be anywhere near the first-choice XI.

He's the only player in the team who produced his best performance of the WC in the semi-final, and I think that means something.

 

[thierry henry]

Seriously, who can say who should be in our test team? We haven't played any in ages, and we'll hardly be playing any in the near future, and we don't have any "test world cup" to "build for", in order to make the public/media care about the NZ test side.

As much as I hate it I fear the focus will be on ODI cricket for a few years to come

 

[Flem274*]

Seriously, who can say who should be in our test team? We haven't played any in ages, and we'll hardly be playing any in the near future, and we don't have any "test world cup" to "build for", in order to make the public/media care about the NZ test side.

As much as I hate it I fear the focus will be on ODI cricket for a few years to come

It depends who the coach is. If it's Bracewell I bet Bangladesh could easily surpass us in tests if things keep going in our downward trend.

Here is a list of players I think we should start introducing to international cricket

Ryder
Papps (recall)
Diamanti
Hay
O'Brien
Ingram
Houpapa
Davis
Southee
Harvie
Broom
Hopkins
McGlashan
T Astle
J McMillan
N McCullum

There are probably others I've forgotten. But I expect a fair amount of those gys to be in the mix in the future.

Another thing we need to do is find out why all our potentialy top shelf players, especially bowlers, get injured so often.Crowe, Allot, Nash, Cairns, Bond and Taylor looks to be going the same way. We need to eliminate this problem, now.

 

[Athlai]

A bit more cricket for McGlashan just to act as McCullums injury replacement do you think? I think he'll be playing for many years to come and though McGlashan is a decent player McCullum outclasses him IMO.

I would love to see most of those players get given a chance. Though I only saw most of them in the 20 20 tournament on television. But a lot of them were impressive!

Interesting to see how much change will come into this squad over the next few years.

 

[Flem274*]

A bit more cricket for McGlashan just to act as McCullums injury replacement do you think? I think he'll be playing for many years to come and though McGlashan is a decent player McCullum outclasses him IMO.

I would love to see most of those players get given a chance. Though I only saw most of them in the 20 20 tournament on television. But a lot of them were impressive!

Interesting to see how much change will come into this squad over the next few years.

I think some of our older guys are going to get nasty frights IMO. Some of these young guys look better than them. I think we should introduce a tough selection policy so guys that consistently underperform go home. If they are under pressure for thier spots they will play better cricket. Even if guys like Bond underperform, be ruthless. Make them perform all the time. Our cricket should improve then.