Ethnicity in aussie cricket wahts the real status

[McKanga]

I would guess say that with school cricket when my boys played we had a pretty representative mix of kids play, bar those of Asian background.
Likewise with Australian Rules football, and with my daughter's netball.

Am not going to get into a debate on race religion etc.
Jews in australia are considered an ethnic group there is 80,000 overall.....

I appreciate you don't want a debate but to be Jewish is no more to be part of an ethnic group than to be Catholic or Muslim. The Australian census asks questions on race and religion and those who nominate Judaism do so under religion. Yes there are some ethnic groups where most are Jewish but that can be said of any religion.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I appreciate you don't want a debate but to be Jewish is no more to be part of an ethnic group than to be Catholic or Muslim. The Australian census asks questions on race and religion and those who nominate Judaism do so under religion. Yes there are some ethnic groups where most are Jewish but that can be said of any religion.

I'd say it can be either a religious or an ethnic identity. Lots of quote-unquote Jewish people do not practice their religion and indeed some are actively atheist but still identify as Jewish on the basis that, traditionally, Jewishness is inherited from one's mother. I don't want to single saggers out here, but he's never struck me as overly religious but still identifies himself as Jewish.

Someone once said (I can't recall who, might've been Woody Allen or Jackie Mason) that if you're Jewish enough for a gas chamber you're a Jew.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Meh, Jews (and anyone else) can classify themselves however they want. None of anyone else's business to do so, really.

Just a few observations on the whole thing:

• Generally, I've mostly come across players of sub-continent extraction as batsmen, and not really that many spinners (outside of import players) or pacemen.
• A couple of pretty good players have also had to give up cricket (at a District level anyways) because of work commitments.
• We'll see more and more players come through. Players are more likely to get involved in the local "pathways" when they begin their cricket in Australia as opposed to coming over after the age of 12, when talent identification has started. This sees a lot of players with potential end up playing at local clubs when they could play district (maybe higher??) cricket.
• Kumar Sarna will be an interesting one. He'll be in for a shock at the Academy. Good batsmen - not much chop at calling, running between wickets, fielding, bowling, discipline, etc. Usman Khawaja will be a good player, and probably end up playing some FC cricket - what happens from there is anyone's guess.
• I know in Melbourne there's a Sunday competition that is mostly made up of people with Sri Lankan background, naming the teams "Kandy", "Colombo CC" etc., an example of how the communities often stay together in a sporting sense, and outside of the conventional "cricket pathways" set up for talent identification.

 

[pasag]

I would guess say that with school cricket when my boys played we had a pretty representative mix of kids play, bar those of Asian background.
Likewise with Australian Rules football, and with my daughter's netball.

I appreciate you don't want a debate but to be Jewish is no more to be part of an ethnic group than to be Catholic or Muslim. The Australian census asks questions on race and religion and those who nominate Judaism do so under religion. Yes there are some ethnic groups where most are Jewish but that can be said of any religion.

Sigh, Brockley had it more or less right in the first instance. It's a fairly tricky concept and there is much debate about it from all corners. But not as simplistic as you've put it.

This wasn't something I wanted to get into and cloud CC with, but for yours and Richard's benefit I'll explain it to you, how it is seen from a Jewish viewpoint, ie how we consider ourselves. Jews are an ethnicity, that is, to be considered a Jew by Jewish law, you must be born to a Jewish mother who was born from a Jewish mother herself up the line. If not you are not considered a Jew. (You can convert but that gets really tricky to explain how it fits it, but it does, either way it’s a tiny minority that doesn’t factor into the discussion).

Now once you are born a Jew, from our opinion you are always a Jew. You can convert to Islam and Christianity or any other faith but you are always a Jew, from birth.

Now people of the Jews ethnicity, ie me, practice a religion called 'Judaism'. If one does not follow the religion, Ie Bob Dylan, Jerry Seinfeld they are called non-practicing Jews, but they are still Jewish. But someone like me, who does practice the religion would be considered a practicing/ orthodox Jew.

Therefore, someone who rocks up and decides to start keeping the laws of Judaism eg Madonna is not considered Jewish to the vast majority of Rabbinate and accepted opinions both academically and in the wider Jewish community. Therefore, when you say it is just a religion , it's not, and you're confusing Judaism with Jews, when Judaism is the religion and faith that Jews adhere to.

Edit: No C_C. Don't do it.

 

[pasag]

I'd say it can be either a religious or an ethnic identity. Lots of quote-unquote Jewish people do not practice their religion and indeed some are actively atheist but still identify as Jewish on the basis that, traditionally, Jewishness is inherited from one's mother. I don't want to single saggers out here, but he's never struck me as overly religious but still identifies himself as Jewish.

Someone once said (I can't recall who, might've been Woody Allen or Jackie Mason) that if you're Jewish enough for a gas chamber you're a Jew.

Spot on more or less Brumby. I am quite religious though, I'd just never bring it up CW.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Spot on Brumby. I am quite religious though, I'd just never bring it up CW.

Fair enough. No offence meant, I'd just always assumed you were non-practising precisely because you never mention it.

 

[pasag]

Haha nah, the only time I ever really get offened on CW is when you curse out the great man in your avatar.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Judaism is quite obviously more than just a faith. The simple fact that you can "look Jewish" should be enough of a giveaway in that regard.

 

[social]

Pretty simple explanation for low representation of people from differing ethnic backgrounds palying cricket at high levels

Oz is a relatively young country with high percentage population growth

Virtually all growth can be attributed to immigration

Many school children are therefore first generation Australians whose parents did not come from a cricketing background. As such, they were brought up with back-ground in sports such as "soccer" (have a look at names in Oz World Cup team)

It will take another 10-20 years before we see a proliferation of 2nd generation kids into "mainstream" Oz sports such as cricket

I went to a non-denominational school where academic achievement was paramount - plenty of Asian and Jewish kids. They were brought up with football, tennis, basketball and loved the beach in summer (no freedom or opportunity in homeland)

Many of my schoolmates' kids love rugby and cricket but it'll take a generation or 2 to come through

 

[pasag]

Pretty simple explanation for low representation of people from differing ethnic backgrounds palying cricket at high levels

Oz is a relatively young country with high percentage population growth

Virtually all growth can be attributed to immigration

Many school children are therefore first generation Australians whose parents did not come from a cricketing background. As such, they were brought up with back-ground in sports such as "soccer" (have a look at names in Oz World Cup team)

It will take another 10-20 years before we see a proliferation of 2nd generation kids into "mainstream" Oz sports such as cricket

I went to a non-denominational school where academic achievement was paramount - plenty of Asian and Jewish kids. They were brought up with football, tennis, basketball and loved the beach in summer (no freedom or opportunity in homeland)

Many of my schoolmates' kids love rugby and cricket but it'll take a generation or 2 to come through

That was more or the less the conclusion of Roebuck (iirc in The Age, could have been someone else) who said it takes time, but it will happen. England with Monty and Saj, he said, are just a generation or two ahead of Australia with these matters (integration of all cultures into cricket). Can't find the link though.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Pretty simple explanation for low representation of people from differing ethnic backgrounds palying cricket at high levels

Oz is a relatively young country with high percentage population growth

Virtually all growth can be attributed to immigration

Many school children are therefore first generation Australians whose parents did not come from a cricketing background. As such, they were brought up with back-ground in sports such as "soccer" (have a look at names in Oz World Cup team)

It will take another 10-20 years before we see a proliferation of 2nd generation kids into "mainstream" Oz sports such as cricket

I went to a non-denominational school where academic achievement was paramount - plenty of Asian and Jewish kids. They were brought up with football, tennis, basketball and loved the beach in summer (no freedom or opportunity in homeland)

Many of my schoolmates' kids love rugby and cricket but it'll take a generation or 2 to come through

That's obviously true of Aussies whose background is from non-cricketing nations, but doesn't explain the absence of those of sub-continental extraction where cricket is largely the only show in town.

I suppose there might be something in Roebuck's idea that Australia's immigration from the sub-continent happened somewhat after ours.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

That's obviously true of Aussies whose background is from non-cricketing nations, but doesn't explain the absence of those of sub-continental extraction where cricket is largely the only show in town.

I suppose there might be something in Roebuck's idea that Australia's immigration from the sub-continent happened somewhat after ours.

It's a pretty fractional percentage of our immigrant population that is from the subcontinent, really. We get far more immigrants from other parts of Asia, and Europe obviously.

 

[BoyBrumby]

It's a pretty fractional percentage of our immigrant population that is from the subcontinent, really. We get far more immigrants from other parts of Asia, and Europe obviously.

1.31% in a population of about 20mill is still over 200,000 people tho. The figures that Neil quoted suggest our ethnic-subcontinent population is only about triple that, percentage wise.

 

[PhoenixFire]

It's a pretty fractional percentage of our immigrant population that is from the subcontinent, really. We get far more immigrants from other parts of Asia, and Europe obviously.

You get a lot of Greek and Eastern European people, right?

 

[McKanga]

Sigh, Brockley had it more or less right in the first instance.....

Thanks, can't argue with that.

 

[C_C]

Is it?

Thats what they'd like you to believe or in many cases, believe themselves, despite having no basis on claiming themselves an ethnicity.

 

[Salamuddin]

Hey what about Jay Poria and Manjot Singh ??

Poria is a fast medium bowler who opens the bowling for NSW u-19 and Manjot is a batting allrounder for the smae team ?

 

[Richard]

Thats what they'd like you to believe or in many cases, believe themselves, despite having no basis on claiming themselves an ethnicity.

Edit: No C_C. Don't do it.

...

 

[brockley]

The chinese community in australia have not seemed to embrace any sports in australia and its a large ethnic community,the cheequees are the only ethnic chinese to take to cricket and they were vietnamese.
Melbourne does seem to have a big ethnic population in melbourne,does arsunge gurshinge still play in melbourne or is he retired now.
Whats needed is an ethnic cup,just like we have a country cups and under age cups,and an aboriginal cup.May be a way of discovering or unearthing talent,would be the way forward.
I think players are coming through grade,but moreso underage cricket.
Shame aihleen beadle not capitalised on his talents.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Asanka hasn't played District cricket for a pretty long time now. He may well be playing in some local (club) cricket.