Swimming - now a joke

[kingdamo]

Yeah, the new suits are a farce. Since they have been banned for next year, swimmers here have been stocking up on them and getting personal bests they would never have got without the suits. It's a joke really.

I don't see how Swimming as a sport can be called a joke though.

 

[Matt79]

You don't think butterfly is a joke?

 

[Son Of Coco]

You don't think butterfly is a joke?

I don't think it is, it's just another swimming discipline. The idea of throwing all the strokes in together and just having people swim whatever they want would just see everyone swim freestyle as the fastest at that are faster than those doing other strokes.

I think butterfly is the hardest stroke out of all of them to be good at. It's usually the stroke the least amount of people can swim.

 

[Pigeon]

I reiterate my demand for conducting swimming competitions in the nude. Restrict entries to same gender for each gender if necessary.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I reiterate my demand for conducting swimming competitions in the nude. Restrict entries to same gender for each gender if necessary.

I'd back that, as long as they sounded a loud siren before the men came out so I could change the channel.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Nothing bar steroids have produced comparable improvements in athletics. Running shoes do nothing - Bolt would break world records in a $40 pair of sneakers from KMart. Why not just legalize flippers if all you want is to achieve faster times without improving as an athlete?

As Jono has said tho, everyone has access to the suits and there surely aren't any long term health problems associated with using them. As long as the playing field is even and there are no arguments about protecting the athletes from themselves I can't see any problem from embracing technology.

To use a rather trite example, QI (Stephen Fry-hosted panel show) recently suggested that shaving off one's body hair can improve swimming speeds by 2%, which is a considerable bit. Should the deforesting of legs and chests then be banned too?

It seems swimming is making a rod for its own back by banning the suits but letting the records set whilst wearing them still stand.

 

[Langeveldt]

Stealing this from a radio show, but I think the current controversy re the suits has simply marked the absurd end point of a sport utterly obsessed with records and medals.

For starters, why are there four strokes competed in at the Olympics and majors? We dont have a running backwards event. What on earth is butterfly? Would anyone ever swim butterfly outside of competition? Guys like Thorpe and Phelps have shown thatthe best freestyle swimmers could dominate the niche strokes if they could be bothered. There should just be distances and you can swim whatever stroke you like - 50, 100, 200, 400, 800 and 1500.

Also, why are there separate events and world records for short course and long course (short course occurring in 25m pools rather than the Olympic 50m)? Again, you don't see any meetings in athletics where the 100m is run as two lengths of a 50m track.

Grinds my gears tbh. And that's before we get onto the suits.

Well if you're trying to swim from one end of a pool to the other in the quickest possible time, what else should you be obsessed by?

 

[Son Of Coco]

As Jono has said tho, everyone has access to the suits and there surely aren't any long term health problems associated with using them. As long as the playing field is even and there are no arguments about protecting the athletes from themselves I can't see any problem from embracing technology.

To use a rather trite example, QI (Stephen Fry-hosted panel show) recently suggested that shaving off one's body hair can improve swimming speeds by 2%, which is a considerable bit. Should the deforesting of legs and chests then be banned too?

It seems swimming is making a rod for its own back by banning the suits but letting the records set whilst wearing them still stand.

Shaving body hair reduces drag though, there's nothing natural about donning a suit that turns you into a human boat. The problem I have with it is it makes a mockery of anything that has happened in swimming before the suits came about. Long-standing records have been broken by people with less ability, and now they're keeping these records. It's madness (which is where we agree).

 

[Son Of Coco]

Well if you're trying to swim from one end of a pool to the other in the quickest possible time, what else should you be obsessed by?

Haha, exactly.

Could also say cricket is obsessed with stats. Athletes are obsessed with times, heights and distances. And humans are obsessed with achievements.

 

[ripper868]

On the Shoes thing, I remember an interview from the Dream (with Roy & HG) during the 2000 Olympics. Basically they had two American Sprinters in who had won the 4X100 relay gold, can't remember their names and frankly don't care. They were asked if shoes could actually make you run faster and the response was on the lines of "Look, a 10flat runner barefoot will beat a 10.2 runner with the most advanced shoes on."

 

[Son Of Coco]

On the Shoes thing, I remember an interview from the Dream (with Roy & HG) during the 2000 Olympics. Basically they had two American Sprinters in who had won the 4X100 relay gold, can't remember their names and frankly don't care. They were asked if shoes could actually make you run faster and the response was on the lines of "Look, a 10flat runner barefoot will beat a 10.2 runner with the most advanced shoes on."

Yeah, it's interesting. I'm not sure what the equivalent to the suits would be on the running track. Maybe rollerblades haha. Obviously, they don't make a difference to that extent, but the suits have certainly made a big enough difference to make only decent swimmers WR holders.

 

[Pamela]

hmm i m big fan of swimming If I were dropped out of a plane into the ocean and told the nearest land was a thousand miles away, I'd still swim. And I'd despise the one who gave up.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Shaving body hair reduces drag though, there's nothing natural about donning a suit that turns you into a human boat. The problem I have with it is it makes a mockery of anything that has happened in swimming before the suits came about. Long-standing records have been broken by people with less ability, and now they're keeping these records. It's madness (which is where we agree).

TBF tho there's nothing inherently more natural about shaving than wearing a body suit. We're just conditioned to accept one as a norm, but not the other.

As for the lessening of the records, well it's not a level playing field, true, but one can equally apply that to any sport. Should current batting stats be asterisked because the batsmen wear body armour? As I said in another thread, back when Larwood was charging in in 32/33 your blokes wear in genuine mortal danger. Nowadays the worst they're likely to get is a ringing in the ears when they get clonked on the helmet.

 

[Johnners]

TBF tho there's nothing inherently more natural about shaving than wearing a body suit. We're just conditioned to accept one as a norm, but not the other.

As for the lessening of the records, well it's not a level playing field, true, but one can equally apply that to any sport. Should current batting stats be asterisked because the batsmen wear body armour? As I said in another thread, back when Larwood was charging in in 32/33 your blokes wear in genuine mortal danger. Nowadays the worst they're likely to get is a ringing in the ears when they get clonked on the helmet.

Kallis & Smith disagree tstl

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah, it's interesting. I'm not sure what the equivalent to the suits would be on the running track. Maybe rollerblades haha. Obviously, they don't make a difference to that extent, but the suits have certainly made a big enough difference to make only decent swimmers WR holders.

Well if good swimmers use the perfectly-good technology that's available too, surely "only decent" swimmers won't hold the records anymore?

 

[Son Of Coco]

Well if good swimmers use the perfectly-good technology that's available too, surely "only decent" swimmers won't hold the records anymore?

It makes the records redundant though, that's the point. Is Ian Thorpe going to come out of retirement to swim in the new suit and reclaim his record that was only beaten recently because of the suits?

Sure, it might have been beaten eventually. But there's an asterisk next to the new record due to the suit being used in the swim in my opinion.

The reason some of the swimmers aren't using the suits is because they disagree with the technology. See Michael Phelps. Then you have the ridiculous situation where Libby Lenton uses a suit that isn't her sponsor's suit in the relay as she puts her team at a disadvantage if she doesn't.

 

[Son Of Coco]

TBF tho there's nothing inherently more natural about shaving than wearing a body suit. We're just conditioned to accept one as a norm, but not the other.
As for the lessening of the records, well it's not a level playing field, true, but one can equally apply that to any sport. Should current batting stats be asterisked because the batsmen wear body armour? As I said in another thread, back when Larwood was charging in in 32/33 your blokes wear in genuine mortal danger. Nowadays the worst they're likely to get is a ringing in the ears when they get clonked on the helmet.

I don't think those situations are comparable personally. When FINA themselves have decided they provide an unfair advantage and are banning them, the decision to keep the records is mind-blowingly stupid.

If the relative sporting bodies decided helmets and padding provided a batsman with an unfair advantage after allowing them to be introduced and in the mean time all batting records had been broken then I would say that yes the batting stats should be asterisked.

 

[GIMH]

Kallis & Smith disagree tstl

Mitchell Johnson is SO cool, but **** Bodyline, cheating Poms

 

[kingdamo]

Pretty sure Phelps wears a different suit because of sponsorship deals. He doesn't really need it though, look what he does with first version of the suit.

 

[Jono]

the decision to keep the records is mind-blowingly stupid.

Brumby and I don't disagree that that decision is stupid. We're questioning the decision to ban the suits at all.