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2018 Windies vs 2000 Windies

jimmy101

Cricketer Of The Year
Gayle, Ambrose Rose and King weren’t on the 2000/01 tour. Ganga replaced Gayle and actually looked capable but never could build a score and was dropped by the final Test.

Backing up Walsh in the pace attack from memory was Dillon, McLean, Stuart, Black and Nagamooto providing some underwhelming fast leg-spin.

Dillon was the best Windies bowler that series; bowled some very good leg-cutters but alas, never really built on the promise he showed.

In contrast, I don’t think I ever saw Nixon McLean seam or swing a ball ever. Marlon Black had a bright start to the series but faded and his Test career never got going.

But their bowling wasn’t bad all things considered; it was their batting that was a disaster.
Even when the series was taking place I remember thinking the Windies had made some really odd selections. Dillon was a class act, however McLean, Stuart, Black & Nagamootoo were all sub-par IMO. Then again, I don't think I saw much else of them besides what I saw in that series, which is probably not a fair assessment.

I guess the selectors were just retaliating to the gradual decline of the team over the past few years, and a few players being out of form, but I thought it was strange that underrated bowlers such as King, Rose, Collymore & Ramnarine weren't brought out for that tour.
 

Mr Miyagi

Banned
For WI the mantra seems to be, when the chips are down, bring Devon Smith back to town.
He reminds me of an alien from the James Cameron film franchise Aliens.







It is a shame he isn't opening with Gayle, who when he wears his do-rag under his helmet, looks like a Predator from the Predator film franchise.



They could have been Alien and Predator.
 
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TheJediBrah

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It is just so obviously the 2000 side.
I think that's why it's an interesting comparison. 2000 side is far stronger on paper but 2018 side is playing better.

Some big names on that 2000 list were utterly hopeless onnthe aus tour
 

Mr Miyagi

Banned
I think that's why it's an interesting comparison. 2000 side is far stronger on paper but 2018 side is playing better.

Some big names on that 2000 list were utterly hopeless onnthe aus tour
Wow big call.

SL and Bangladesh are more likely crap away.

The West Indies jagged a win in England when their batting did something, but their batting was woeful in NZ. Roach and Gabriel have been decent for a long time, I already thought they're better quality than many realised before this SL and Bangla series, but I had the luxury of watching them in England and NZ (yes they caused NZ some troubles that CdG and Blundell centuries at 7 and 8 disguise after Rossco did well to blunt them off with an 80 odd), but their batting line up is next to useless until Holder.

Holder is a fair bat for an allrounder, Roach and Gabriel are fair bowlers, better than perhaps (I quite like Gabriel's effort on second and third spells over 140 - he is aggressive, fit and strong), but their batting is crud, headlined by Braithwaite?! Chase has not kicked on at all. Powell is lucky to play FC let alone test cricket. Hetmyer?!?! Shai Hope is far from convincing me already, too. And Kyle was an epic fail.
 
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TheJediBrah

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2000 West Indies side to tour Australia was possibly the worst I've seen, especially batting. Even Lara was terrible bar one innings at Adelaide. The performance of a team =/= how good they are on paper.
 

Mr Miyagi

Banned
2000 West Indies side to tour Australia was possibly the worst I've seen, especially batting. Even Lara was terrible bar one innings at Adelaide. The performance of a team =/= how good they are on paper.
It was away, and playing a super team, that is one of the two best ever teams to play test cricket.

That is far different from being at home, and playing sub-continental teams not India or Pakistan on seamer decks. And even then, SL jagged a drawn series with a match win. And this isn't Murali, Vaas, Dilshan, Sanga, Jaya SL - this is Chandimal and guys never heard of before because Mathews is out SL.
 
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Mr Miyagi

Banned
David Houghton Biography (27 February) | Cricket | ESPNcricinfo

December 1997 brought the end of an era for cricket in Zimbabwe, as Dave Houghton, at the age of 40 the oldest and one of the most remarkable players in international cricket, announced his retirement. He may well go down on record as the biggest single contributor to cricket in the country. He has made an immense contribution to the game, scoring at the time of his retirement not far short of twice as many runs for the country as the next best, and will continue to do so as coach.

With only two first-class centuries before the age of 30 and denied Test cricket until the age of 35, he had at the time of his retirement the thirteenth-highest average of any current Test batsman. He could still master any bowling attack in the world, particularly the spinners, and it seemed ridiculous that he retire when he was batting as well as at any time in his career. He remained totally loyal to Zimbabwe throughout his career, and has never been tempted away by fine offers to play elsewhere, as were several other leading Zimbabweans before Test status was granted.

Dave gave three main reasons for his retirement. The immediate reason was that he had been battling with nagging back and knee injuries, mostly niggles which troubled him the next morning after a long day in the field. This was particularly unfortunate, because his expertise against the home team's spin bowlers in conditions that favoured them would have been absolutely invaluable. Secondly, he had been so busy with his job as the national team coach that he had had insufficient time to concentrate on his own game. Finally, he now felt, especially with the return of Murray Goodwin, that Zimbabwe had enough young batsmen of high calibre and that he should not stand in the way of their progress...

He was also a wicket-keeper at that stage; he 'just happened' to be a keeper at all the sports he played, keeping goal in soccer and hockey -- in fact, he was the national side's hockey goalkeeper for several years. Kallimullah, the Pakistan hockey captain at that time has gone on record as saying that he regarded Dave as the greatest goalkeeper he had ever played against. As a boy he enjoyed being involved in the action all the time, and he continued to play behind the stumps until his early thirties when, as he puts it, he `saw the light'; he had long since ceased to enjoy the job. A painful hand condition, caused by the constant battering of the ball, was also a major factor...

After independence, he usually continued in his dual role, although occasionally played as a batsman only, while Robin Brown kept wicket. However, it was generally agreed that Dave was the better of the two, and many judges still rate Dave as Zimbabwe's best keeper since independence. His ability as a hockey goalkeeper stood him in good stead; he had very quick reflexes, was very agile standing back, and also achieved some brilliant dismissals when standing up to the stumps.
Superstar. How did Gilchrist bat in tests after 33 let alone 35? ;)
 
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GotSpin

Hall of Fame Member
The current team is still horribly weak and Holder is really the glue keeping the team together

Beamer will probably know better than all of us, but what really gives me some hope for a future resurgence of Caribbean cricket is the improvement of the pitches. Absolute turd burgler spinners have been dominating the domestic scene for years now but these test wickets have been great and will go some way to developing pace bowlers and better bats again
 

Beamer

International Vice-Captain
Really interesting thread. I agree with the general consensus that the 2000 team was considerably better on paper but the 2018 team looks like it will end up being more competitive (different opposition and a recognition that is early days admittedly).

That 2000 team had 2 major problems in that the batting, although decent on paper, tended to have complete meltdowns and the 3rd seamer got caned consistently when opposition survived Ambrose and Walsh.

The 2018 team has excellent team spirit and the lower order tends to avoid disastrous and record breaking collapses but they can't find an opening partner for Kraigg, the middle order is finding its feet and that 3rd seamer position still is still a problem.

Our selectors were rubbish in 2000 and they still are. Admittedly they have few options for openers but to consistently select the likes of Powell, Smith and Cummins ahead of Hetmeyer, Ambris and Paul. With better pitches looking likely now I'm pretty confident we'll see some better options appearing but it might take a bit of time.
 

Slifer

International Captain
That 2000 looks good on paper but in reality they were depressingly bad. Lara was in the middle of a 3 year form slump (1999 v Oz excepted), Ambrose & Walsh were still challenging bowlers but lacking their peak lethal ability, Adams was done and as someone else said Chanderpaul wouldn’t become consistent for a few years yet.

I guess my memory is defined by how bad they were when they toured Australia at the end of 2000; a guarantee they wouldn’t get any more 5 Test series.
Ambrose didnt tour oz in 2000. Wi were bad away, like most teams are now. Up until 2000, wi only lost one series at home (since 1973).
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The current lot look like they have a bit of self-belief, something that has been sadly lacking for a long time
 

Slifer

International Captain
If we're comparing the 00 side to this , using the results in Australia as some type of gauge is silly. That side was an atg and were in the midst of Winning 16 on the trot. Wi in 00 was bad but imo this current team is much worse. Ffs sake they have Devon smith!! Also, again the 00 was bad but were mostly so away, at home wi (up til 2000 )were nigh unbeatable. This current I feel like would struggle at home and away against most teams.
 

jimmy101

Cricketer Of The Year
What with the West Indies' crushing victory over England, can we now say that the current side is better than the 2000 side?
 

TheJediBrah

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I think we could already. 2000 was the side that lost 5-0 in Aus and looked like one of the worst touring sides in history.
 

SillyCowCorner1

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Old Walsh
Old Ambrose
Mervyn Dillon
Reon King
Pedro Collins

versus

Shannon Gabriel
Kemar Roach
Jason Holder
Alzarri Joseph
Keemo Paul
 

jimmy101

Cricketer Of The Year
I think we could already. 2000 was the side that lost 5-0 in Aus and looked like one of the worst touring sides in history.
Yeah, it was pretty brittle. Although the current SL side would have to come under consideration when weighing up shocking touring teams.
 

jimmy101

Cricketer Of The Year
Old Walsh
Old Ambrose
Mervyn Dillon
Reon King
Pedro Collins

versus

Shannon Gabriel
Kemar Roach
Jason Holder
Alzarri Joseph
Keemo Paul
2000 bowling lineup looks stronger to me on paper, but the 2018/1019 contingent has vastly out-performed them and completely dominated more than one batting lineup.

WI at home are a real powerhouse. Anyone know when Australia are next scheduled to tour WI?
 

SillyCowCorner1

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2000 bowling lineup looks stronger to me on paper, but the 2018/1019 contingent has vastly out-performed them and completely dominated more than one batting lineup.

WI at home are a real powerhouse. Anyone know when Australia are next scheduled to tour WI?
Ambrose alone is worth 2 Kemar Roaches and two and a half Alzarri Josephs (His fellow countryman)
 

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