The Dismantling of India

[honestbharani]

I've always looked on test cricket as winning the series. That is the priority. The margin of the victory is merely a bonus.

Again, you are misunderstanding what I said. Winning series is the priority. But for a discussion on who is the best team in the world, the overall performance, including dead rubbers WILL be considered.

 

[honestbharani]

This idea that you have to clean sweep sides to be a good team yourself is ****ing ludicrous.

The other ********* thing that's creeping into discussions on here is "So and so only averaged 42/43/45 on this tour, which isn't great".

Put the word out there - it isn't the 2000s any more. Conditions for bowling aren't as bad as they were a decade ago. If you're marking down players in the current era for averaging in the mid-40s on away tours then you know **** all about cricket.

Great job arguing a point no one made,

 

[Daemon]

Yeah but those dropped tests have led to series DRAWS right - SL 2014, NZ 2014, SA 2013.

Even in 2013-14 Pakistan lost 0-3 to SA, 1-1 in Zim () and 0-2 in SL. So they don't really have a good away record (in line with most other teams) and a good but not great home record (like say England who drop matches regularly at home but still win/draw series).

This. They're very hard to beat at home but so many teams have been able to draw series there. Compare that to Australia or India's home record.

 

[S.Kennedy]

The only clanger is Pakistan's recent defeat in New Zealand. I think a lot more would be placing Pakistan at two - or even one - if that hadn't happened.

 

[honestbharani]

Away series in the last 2 years for Pakistan
2-1 in Sri Lanka
1-0 in Bangladesh and before you dismiss that, just jog back to October this year.
2-2 in England.
0-2 in New Zealand

It's not a great record but these are the last 4 away series they have played.

Compare that to the last 4 away series of
Australia
England
New Zealand
Sri Lanka


Other than South Africa who just have 0-3 in India, tell me which other team has a better away record in the last 2-3 years? India have 2 away wins which seems to be the highest, which is also how many Pakistan have, plus a drawn series.

If that's a bad away record, then I don't know what gold standard you judge teams by.

Read ltm's post again and see where it is wrong. It is obvious.

 

[honestbharani]

The only clanger is Pakistan's recent defeat in New Zealand. I think a lot more would be placing Pakistan at two - or even one - if that hadn't happened.

Its not the ONLY clanger but it is the clincher. I had them #1 before that but it was because I thought drawing in England offset some of their less impressive home performances as well as the fact they hardly tour outside the SC. The Windies series showed that they were not really dominant at home like Aus or Ind have been and then the thrashing in NZ happened.

 

[smash84]

Its not the ONLY clanger but it is the clincher. I had them #1 before that but it was because I thought drawing in England offset some of their less impressive home performances as well as the fact they hardly tour outside the SC. The Windies series showed that they were not really dominant at home like Aus or Ind have been and then the thrashing in NZ happened.

This pretty much.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Yeah but those dropped tests have led to series DRAWS right - SL 2014, NZ 2014, SA 2013.

Even in 2013-14 Pakistan lost 0-3 to SA, 1-1 in Zim () and 0-2 in SL. So they don't really have a good away record (in line with most other teams) and a good but not great home record (like say England who drop matches regularly at home but still win/draw series).

Well if we're going back to 2013-14, then we should do that for all teams.
India: 2013:
0-1 in South Africa
0-1 in New Zealand
1-3 in England
0-2 in Australia

Australia

0-4 in India
0-3 in England
2-1 in South Africa
0-2 in UAE



As for England, they have 2 drawn series out of 4 at home in the last 2 years.
1-1 vs New Zealand
2-2 vs Pakistan

Again no one here has argued that Pakistan are stellar away from home. No one other than South Africa is.

But their record is second best behind South Africa and equal to India's away record in the last 2 years and certainly better than everyone else.

Since facts get missed here, let's have them out here

Away since 2015 which is a good 2 years now

Pakistan
1-0 in Bangladesh
2-1 in Sri Lanka
2-2 in England
0-2 in New Zealand

2 Wins, 1 Draw, 1 loss

India
2-0 in West Indies
2-1 in Sri Lanka
0-0 in Bangladesh
We'll count the Australia series as a 2014 so India get a pass

2 Wins, 1 draw

Australia
2-3 in England
2-0 in New Zealand
0-3 in Sri Lanka
2-0 in West Indies

2 Wins. 2 losses

England
1-1 in West Indies
0-2 in UAE
2-1 in South Africa
1-1 in Bangladesh
0-3 in India

1 win, 2 draws, 2 losses



Now tell me again why Pakistan have this horrible away record but everyone else is so much better?

 

[Black_Warrior]

Its not the ONLY clanger but it is the clincher. I had them #1 before that but it was because I thought drawing in England offset some of their less impressive home performances as well as the fact they hardly tour outside the SC. The Windies series showed that they were not really dominant at home like Aus or Ind have been and then the thrashing in NZ happened.

That's fine.. They might not be as dominant as India but they still have not lost a series at home since 2010. In the same period, India have a home defeat.

Australia have 3 home defeats since 2010.

I would take draws over defeats any day of the week.

 

[Daemon]

Nobody said they have a horrible away record or that other teams are better.

 

[Black_Warrior]

HB I understand you have an axe to grind against LTM and that's between the two of you and I don't really care. But this is certainly influencing the way you are talking about Pakistan cricket team these days because LTM appears to be a Pakistan fan.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Nobody said they have a horrible away record or that other teams are better.

Here we go again. You argue a point, and then someone says 'but nobody said that'

Here we go again with the myth about Pak's "away success". Before this year, they'd barely ventured outside Asia for 6 years FFS. Last time they did, they got smashed 3-0 in SA and only drew in WI and Zimbabwe ().

So their away success consists of one drawn series in England. Not remotely comparable to what SA have achieved.

This post I would interpret it as 'Pakistan is actually pretty **** away from home'

If you interpret it differently, then we are arguing over meaning of words now.

 

[honestbharani]

BW is posting in full PP mode here. Adjusting timelines randomly to help make his point And arguing a point no one has made.

 

[honestbharani]

HB I understand you have an axe to grind against LTM and that's between the two of you and I don't really care. But this is certainly influencing the way you are talking about Pakistan cricket team these days because LTM appears to be a Pakistan fan.

Read my posts again and try to understand what I said. LTM is wrong. I called him out on it. You are the one who thinks this is about Pakistan. It is no one's fault but LTM's that he is always bigging up Pak and discrediting India using with no factual evidence whatsoever and when people call him out on it, it is gonna look like they are thrashing Pakistan when all that is happening is people are pointing out facts. I just said I had them as #1 after their England series which means I thought their performances till that point were worthy enough to be #1. How is that a discredit to that team or my ranking of them?

 

[smash84]

Read ltm's post again and see where it is wrong. It is obvious.

dude, why don't you have ltm on ignore by now? He gets under your skin sooo easily. He doesn't even need to try.

 

[DriveClub]

BW is posting in full PP mode here. Adjusting timelines randomly to help make his point And arguing a point no one has made.

His timelines have been consistent, it's your posting which has gone to **** since ltm started posting here, you should join pp and hash it out there instead of stinking this place up.

 

[honestbharani]

lol.. consistent based on what? And dunno why posting facts is **** to you but whatever.

 

[indiaholic]

Dude chill. Ltm's opinions are not worth all this.

 

[honestbharani]

dude, why don't you have ltm on ignore by now? He gets under your skin sooo easily. He doesn't even need to try.

You speak as if I am the only one who feels he posts ****. Try all of CW except the Pak posters.

 

[indiaholic]

Of course he is a troll but why are you engaging? People flagged him as a troll as soon as he started posting.