2015 Final Test Rankings - Steve Smith #1, Williamson #2, Voges #11

[RossTaylorsBox]

Yeah guys, stop making dumb troll posts.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Stupid post... Using series averages is misleading and that is what I was pointing out.

Does your post make sense? No.

Lol you didn't point it out at all. Series averages can be misleading, but not because they can be skewed by good performances. That's idiotic. Good performances define the results shown by series averages.

And, again, it's not even remotely relevant. If Lyon bowled **** and had an ok average, or a **** average couldn't be any less relevant. And that's ignoring the fact that this was over 2 years ago and so many things have changed.

Its mind boggling that thinking people have somehow come to the conclusion that bringing up Nathan Lyon's bowling in 2013 tour of India relates to the discussion in way whatsoever.

btw I didn't think the 2013 India pitches were that bad. Australia were mostly just **** and India played well.

 

[OverratedSanity]

So that makes tracks in Australia a batsman paradise, I just don't see the connection.

How can you not see that that doesn't support your point at all . . . in fact quite the opposite. If Lyon bowled well and still went for runs, that would support your contention.

You implied that on turning pitches on the SC, you don't actually need to bowl that well to get impressive stats. Lyon's bowling in 2013 and Ashwin in 2012 vs England clearly shows that if you bowl rubbish on such tracks, you'll get smashed by good players.

 

[indiaholic]

Lol you didn't point it out at all. Series averages can be misleading, but not because they can be skewed by good performances. That's idiotic. Good performances define the results shown by series averages.

And, again, it's not even remotely relevant. If Lyon bowled **** and had an ok average, or a **** average couldn't be any less relevant. And that's ignoring the fact that this was over 2 years ago and so many things have changed.

Its mind boggling that thinking people have somehow come to the conclusion that bringing up Nathan Lyon's bowling in 2013 tour of India relates to the discussion in way whatsoever.

btw I didn't think the 2013 India pitches were that bad. Australia were mostly just **** and India played well.

TNT brought up Lyon's average of 37 as evidence of him not being smashed around, I pointed out that he was smashed around all the time except for one innings. Not seeing that is idiotic.

 

[Shri]

Not even remotely similar to deliberately preparing dustbowls because you know the touring side has better fast bowlers/not as good spinners or at playing spin.

Sorry but only idiots refuse to exploit the other team's weakness to win.

 

[TheJediBrah]

You implied that on turning pitches on the SC, you don't actually need to bowl that well to get impressive stats.

nope. not paying attention.

Lyon's bowling in 2013 and Ashwin in 2012 vs England clearly shows that if you bowl rubbish on such tracks, you'll get smashed by good players.

2012 . . . 2013

And as I already said, I don't think the pitches in 2013 were that bad. I was pretty much solely talking about the recent series against SA, and select pitches in the past. Nowhere did I say anything about every subcontinental pitch making every spin bowler successful regardless of what they bowled.

All I was saying was that other countries often go out of their way to prepare extra-conducive conditions, and that Australia should do the same. Why all this other irrelevant arguing came fro I have no idea.

TNT brought up Lyon's average of 37 as evidence of him not being smashed around, I pointed out that he was smashed around all the time except for one innings. Not seeing that is idiotic.

it's not, in and of itself. Saying that averages are misleading because when you remove outliers they are skewed, and that statistics with outliers ignored are a more accurate representation of player performance is extremely idiotic. Come on, reading comprehension mate. It's not like deciphering code, I'm very clearly stating exactly what I'm saying.

I'll use the same example I did before. Take away all of Kohli's test centuries, he probably averages 25 or something. Is that a more accurate representation of his average than 45?

of course not.

Sorry but only idiots refuse to exploit the other team's weakness to win.

I agree for the most part. As I said, I think Australia need to do it more. But I wouldn't call them idiots, more so arrogant and naive.

 

[Shri]

but when Simon Harmer and Dean Elgar look like Warne and Murali, and Steyn/Morkel/Philander look like Stuart Binny then you haven't got a leg to stand on

Do you mean better than Warne/Murali? Because they were **** in India. India's own batsmen are not good against spin these days so their failure added to the opposition batsmen's failures makes the pitches look worse than they are. Tldr: Everyone sucks against spin these days so suck it up and enjoy the game.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Do you mean better than Warne/Murali? Because they were **** in India. India's own batsmen are not good against spin these days so their failure added to the opposition batsmen's failures makes the pitches look worse than they are. Tldr: Everyone sucks against spin these days so suck it up and enjoy the game.

could be a factor, but I'm skeptical. I watched a fair bit of those games, the spin and bounce available to anyone who put so much as a single rotation on the ball was ridiculous.

 

[Daemon]

You still haven't said a single relevant thing. India's bowlers have been massively helped by ridiculously helpful conditions where ordinary spin bowlers have done well.

You can't say the same for Australia's batting in the slightest.

Really?

Australia has the most batting friendly conditions in the world atm most of the time, surely you agree?

(I haven't followed this debate so sorry if I took this out of context or whatever)

 

[TheJediBrah]

Really?

Australia has the most batting friendly conditions in the world atm most of the time, surely you agree?

(I haven't followed this debate so sorry if I took this out of context or whatever)

no that's fine, tbf it's been addressed several time if you want to look back through the thread.

To reiterate, you still have to be a good player to make runs in Australia, and the vast majority of games get results. If Australia can consistently take 20 wickets they're not exactly the roads people are claiming. Look back through recent tours and a lot of overseas batsmen have struggled on these "roads".

Comparing that to recent Indian dustbowls (namely recent series v SA), relatively unknown and unnacomplished spinners can be very difficult to play and very successful due to the conditions. You can't say the same about touring batsmen in Australia.

 

[TNT]

Really?

Australia has the most batting friendly conditions in the world atm most of the time, surely you agree?

(I haven't followed this debate so sorry if I took this out of context or whatever)

But the only batsmen who score runs are Williamson, Kholi and Aussies so that seems like it is pretty much what you would expect. Its not like players like Guptil who averages 63 in NZ comes to Australia and scores mountains of runs (averages 13 in Aus). People are only complaining because Australian batsmen who play all their cricket on these pitches score runs (how bizarre is that). How many average batsmen come to Australia and score a ridiculous amount of runs.

And to be fair I think the Australian batsmen have benefited from some very poor bowling, some decent bowling and the Aussie bats would have been under a lot more pressure.

 

[Daemon]

no that's fine, tbf it's been addressed several time if you want to look back through the thread.

To reiterate, you still have to be a good player to make runs in Australia, and the vast majority of games get results. If Australia can consistently take 20 wickets they're not exactly the roads people are claiming. Look back through recent tours and a lot of overseas batsmen have struggled on these "roads".

Comparing that to recent Indian dustbowls (namely recent series v SA), relatively unknown and unnacomplished spinners can be very difficult to play and very successful due to the conditions. You can't say the same about touring batsmen in Australia.

I don't think the SA spinners were that successful though. Elgar took 5 in the whole series, Harmer was averaging 25 a strike rate of 50 odd. In a series where the scores were so low, they aren't amazing figures. Only Tahir was good imo. Overall, I wouldn't say they were 'very successful' because they were still nowhere close to the Indian spinners, even accounting for the fact that SA were **** against spin. So yeah even being a mediocre spinner you end up with stats that look good without context, but they really aren't all that. You still need to bowl well to be good in India, though granted you'll get away with some nice looking stats.

Agreed that it's different in Australia where mediocre touring batsmen seem to be bottling it.

 

[Flem274*]

Guptill averages 63 here because when suranga lakmal and 2009 bangladesh came to visit he tucked in.

imagine facing those blokes on australian decks.

 

[TNT]

ICC did find the Indian pitch unfair though.

In reaching the verdict, the ICC agreed with the “poor” rating given to the pitch by Jeff Crowe, the match referee for the Nagpur Test played from 25-27 November, who observed that the pitch did not allow a fair contest between bat and the ball.
Nagpur pitch receives official warning - ICC Cricket

 

[TNT]

Guptill averages 63 here because when suranga lakmal and 2009 bangladesh came to visit he tucked in.

imagine facing those blokes on australian decks.

That's Guptills average for this year.

NZ and WI bowlers were pretty dire you must admit. A couple of good spells here and there but on the whole very poor.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Guptill averages 63 here because when suranga lakmal and 2009 bangladesh came to visit he tucked in.

imagine facing those blokes on australian decks.

stop clutching at straws guys

This desperate denial won't serve you well

 

[flibbertyjibber]

So basically bowling is crap as batsmen have tucked in to bad bowling apart from the bowlers who are in the top 10 who are only there as the batting as crap and they have got cheap wickets.

 

[Shady Slim]

i think it's that the aussies are the best at bowling on roads is why touring teams struggle here: but they are able to back up the ability to bowl on roads, with one to bat on roads

i need a podcast

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Voges higher than the Boss? Pffft.

 

[Shri]

could be a factor, but I'm skeptical. I watched a fair bit of those games, the spin and bounce available to anyone who put so much as a single rotation on the ball was ridiculous.

Single rotation? What does that even mean? You have no idea how spin bowling(or anything really) works.