Modern New Zealand XI (dayboo post 1980) first poll: The Two Positions from Hell

[Flem274*]

It's all the rage in CC so I thought we could do one of these. With all the good players, not so good players, players who change their role every five seconds and more I thought this could be a fun team to do since there are so many ways this could pan out.

Pretty simple - keep it to post-1980 test debuts, so we're looking at Crowe/Smith onwards.

I thought we'd start with the area New Zealand has had the most success finding good players for since 1980 - openers.

Pick your two but please note if you pick McCullum then he cannot be the wicketkeeper too. Same goes for Bryan Young and Tom Latham should you decide they really must take the gloves ahead of the more noted keepers.

And no Hurricane you can't pick Bruce Edgar. I'm not making the cut off 1978.

For everyone wondering just how not terrible you needed to be to get a nod on this list, you had to average 30 or be Matt Horne or Tim McIntosh. I've included Fleming because okay he did open a little bit and scored a hundred. Plus competition will be tight in the middle order.

You have the option of "other" so Athlai can protest vote for Guptill and in case I've forgotten someone obvious.

 

[Flem274*]

I have voted for Mark Richardson for being the best by far and his big hitting abilities, and for McCullum because I want to pick Watling to take the gloves and Baz is good and he and Rigor batting together would be funny.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Would it not have been a better idea to do the keeper first?

 

[Howe_zat]

Flem to open, (no not flem, I mean flem)

and KW to bat #3

 

[Flem274*]

Would it not have been a better idea to do the keeper first?

Nah. Stronger competition for that spot whereas all the options are needed on the table for the openers.

 

[Moss]

Yes, Rigor for big-hitting ability and those adrenaline pumping post-match races.

Voted for Horne because I tend to feel he was a better player than his record suggests. Was an important part of that "rebuilding" Steve Rixon/David Trist era and some innings just stick in the mind - the hundred at Lord's obviously but also that century against the Zimbos when Paul Strang was running rings around the NZ middle order. His career tailed off after that when the selectors couldn't make up their minds about whether he or Vincent should be Richardson's opening partner. Not world-class, but should've been in the Wright/Edgar category.

And yeah, that visor-less helmet.

 

[Hurricane]

 

[Zinzan]

Would have been a lot easier for me had John Wright not debuted just a year or two prior to 1980.

Anyway, obviously Richardson by a country mile and I'd probably select Fleming as his partner more as a function of wanting KW & Taylor & 3 & 4 and keeping the option open of the likes of Astle/Syris/McMillan as specialist no 5s. Anyway well get to that later.

 

[Zinzan]

Lol, even if the eligibility was debuted after 1975, Wright and Richardson are both comfortably > Edgar as openers for mine. Not even close.

 

[Flem274*]

Players who miss out here can be picked in other positions they've played in later on i.e. Fleming and McCullum can still be eligible for other things.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

I see your Bruce, and raise you one half of New Zealand's best opening partnership in test cricket history:

 

[Zinzan]

Players who miss out here can be picked in other positions they've played in later on i.e. Fleming and McCullum can still be eligible for other things.

Yeah, I get that and judging by the early numbers, I'll probably end up voting for Fleming at 5 if he's put in that category (after being beaten by KW & Taylor). I'm assuming you'll do a vote on the 3 middle order bats at no.s 3,4 & 5 next.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah, I get that and judging by the early numbers, I'll probably end up voting for Fleming at 5 if he's put in that category (after being beaten by KW & Taylor). I'm assuming you'll do a vote on the 3 middle order bats at no.s 3,4 & 5 next.

no crowe?

might do the opening bowlers next.

 

[Hurricane]

I never really saw much of Richardson but the footage of him playing those leaves seriously turns my crank. Leaves are my thing. I didn't vote for him because I knew he would win. I split my votes between TMac and Tom Latham. Tom Latham is the real deal. He won't average 40 as Hendrix hopes. But if he can average 35 we will take that and run to the bank. 35 while opening against the new ball is very useful. It is probably the equivalent of 45 from the number 6 position in terms of difficulty.

TMac was chopped off at the knees by the NZ selectors as far as I am concerned he was a magical opener. He didn't give a **** about the run rate, he just tried to stay in. I loved watching him bat.
2 hours of blocking then suddenly a mighty six. And that hat! I don't know what caught the imagination of the CW public more. The Chris Martin head band or the TMac floppy hat.
I remember the first time Chris Martin played in that head band. One of the faithful CW members commented "Alright no one disses Martin's headband. It is ****ing cool." So we didn't diss it and the head band became part of folklore. Likewise I think it was _Ed_ who just commented "TMac is rocking the floppy today". And no more words were said about it but that floppy has been remembered and he probably only wore it three times.

TMac I am sorry you were mistreated. If it were up to me you would have played longer your vanishing form for Auckland be damned.

 

[Zinzan]

I see your Bruce, and raise you one half of New Zealand's best opening partnership in test cricket history:

With Franklin and Richardson batting all the way through to lunch, we'd be lucky to have 50 runs on the board.

So perhaps Rigger & Bmac might be the ticket in terms of tempo along with being a left/right combo.

 

[Zinzan]

no crowe?

might do the opening bowlers next.

Uppercuts self. Yeah of course, Crowe would be my 4. I suppose if BMac opens, he really does needs to keep wickets to allow us 6 specialist bats in the top order. Otherwise we're basically agreeing he's a better specialist test bat than Fleming, which would surprise me if people really thought that.

 

[Hurricane]

I see your Bruce, and raise you one half of New Zealand's best opening partnership in test cricket history:

Franklin <<< Edgar. Edgar had more shots and was even more gritty. Also Franklin was always out just before lunch. But to his credit he usually survived the new ball blast I will concede.

Apparently he was quite attacking before his leg was crushed at Gatwick airport.

I would probably take John Wright before Bruce Edgar as well. But Edgar was neck and neck with John initially, then Bruce retired and John really hit his straps. I Would like to think that Bruce would have found a new gear as well.
Goodness knows how John Wright plied his trade. The mental disintegration in those days was immense. And it was constant and it had nothing to do with what CW members mistakenly think sledging is about. It was unrelenting abuse and Wright suffered through all of it and would ton up. I suspect that atmosphere played in Bruce's decision to give it away. That is pure speculation though.

One of my child hood memories is telling some adult my favourite player was Bruce Edgar and he remarked that his sister lived in a block of flats that Bruce owned. Being ten years old at the time I had no comeback to that piece of information and have often pondered what I would retort with today.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

I think McCullum's a better specialist Test bat than Fleming. Fleming just wasn't that good, although he was a standout in a very weak side.

 

[Flem274*]

In terms of order I'm thinking

this one
three pace bowlers
three middle order bats
keeper
spinner
#6

trying to keep it as open as possible because there is a gap in batting ability between say baz/watling and parore/smith and do we want just the one pace bowling allrounder or both major ones and do the allrounders begin at 6 or 7 and do we have three or four specialist middle order batsmen? etc etc

so the order of polls will be key to make sure the balance isn't fixed too early.

 

[Flem274*]

Fleming just wasn't that good, although he was a standout in a very weak side.

wat

fleming tamed murali ffs

that very weak side got to #3 or even #2 at one point. could seriously bowl and batted to #1million