Poll2: Playing Selector: Opening Bowlers for Subcontinental AT XI

[watson]

i was talking about waqar being more iconic.

Not even Wasim or Imran could match the inswinging yorkers of a peak waqar though. Imran had a lethal indipper, wasim could move the ball around both ways but waqar owned the yorker. As an overall package though Kapil's bowling average is ok, not that great.

I'm not doubting that Waqar was the better bowler but with Kapil Dev at No.7 and Imran at No.8 you have youself a better cricket team. The trade off to a minor loss in bowling strength is a Botham like allrounder who can end up dominating a Test match with either bat or ball when the mood takes. These sorts of mecurial personalities only occur once in a generation which is why Kapil Dev was the embodiment of Indian cricket between Gavaskar and Tendulkar. I would argue that he was significantly more important than both.

Let's not forget how good a bowler Kapil Dev was from 1980 to 1988. Unfortunately because of his own hubris he played on for at least 2 years too many, and that has ended up colouring our impression of him. But for such a long time during his pomp he was great. The Indian version of Richard Hadlee if you like - supported by mediocre trundlers, and over bowled, but still excellent.

 

[cnerd123]

Went for Waqar to partner Wasim, but really want Imran/Dev to share the new ball with him and just hold Waqar as a old-ball specialist.

 

[mr_mister]

yeah tbh Kapil and Imran both deserve it more than Shakib


I'm thinking though will TC make the 4th bowler thread or the all-rounder thread first? Because if say a second spinner is chosen in the 4th bowler thread the all rounder will definitely be a pace bowler and vice versa

 

[The Battlers Prince]

I'm not doubting that Waqar was the better bowler but with Kapil Dev at No.7 and Imran at No.8 you have youself a better cricket team. The trade off to a minor loss in bowling strength is a Botham like allrounder who can end up dominating a Test match with either bat or ball when the mood takes. These sorts of mecurial personalities only occur once in a generation which is why Kapil Dev was the embodiment of Indian cricket between Gavaskar and Tendulkar. I would argue that he was significantly more important than both.

Let's not forget how good a bowler Kapil Dev was from 1980 to 1988. Unfortunately because of his own hubris he played on for at least 2 years too many, and that has ended up colouring our impression of him. But for such a long time during his pomp he was great. The Indian version of Richard Hadlee if you like - supported by mediocre trundlers, and over bowled, but still excellent.

I'll say first that Kapil Dev deserves a spot in this team, somehow one needs to be found. But to justify his spot as opening bowler because of his batting doesn't sit right with me. He deserves the spot as a bowler or not at all. I know some people take that extra batting, but for me I want to take the twenty wickets as quick and as cheap as I can.
It's a tough call because Kapil Dev is ****ing, I'm just saying it needs to be for the right reasons

 

[mr_mister]

dev @ 7 then imran, wasim and waqar plus murali. very easy to figure out. your tail doesnt start til number 10 and you can skittle any opposition

 

[bagapath]

Even if Imran averaged 2 runs with the bat he would still be a top 15 Cricketer of all time. As a fast bowler there are about 5-7 bowlers who could match him and no one, just no one, is clearly definitely miles ahead of him.

Imran and Wasim to open the bowling

 

[OverratedSanity]

Also playing Sangakkara as the keeper is a strategic mistake because he is miles ahead of any other subcontinent No.3 batsman, even Dravid.

You have to be joking. There's no way he's miles ahead. That he's even ahead is up for debate.

 

[cnerd123]

Probably gonna go for Imran/Dev/Wasim/Murali/Waqar myself.

Bit strange to have 4 quicks and 1 spinner in a subcontinental ATG XI. Shakib and Qadir on the bench to be drafted in if needed.

Batting wise Sanga has to be at 6 now, freeing up 3 for Dravid

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Went for Wasim and Waqar and not Imran because in this team Imran would be batting at the end a lot and I don't want him running off after batting for a long time to opening the bowling in an innings.

 

[bagapath]

Went for Wasim and Waqar and not Imran because in this team Imran would be batting at the end a lot and I don't want him running off after batting for a long time to opening the bowling in an innings.

It would be impossible to find a better new ball bowler than imran; not even lillee, marshall or hadlee could beat him out easily for the honour of bowling the first over. waqar would be awesome to come in after the 25th over, just before lunch, to cause serious damage with a scuffed up ball. for the shiny hard new ball, imran is the best choice.

 

[viriya]

I only considered the 2 best opening bowlers and not whether the pick could slot as an all-rounder - who said an opening bowler can't be the all-rounder anyway?

Imran + Fazal. Could easily have been Imran + Waqar/Wasim as well. Only thing certain is that it's an all-Pakistan pick.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Like to change my vote after thinking it out a bit. Wasim and Imran to open and Waqar to come as first change. Waqar is a must.

Gotta feel for Chris Lewis.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Voted for Kapil by mistake tbh.

But I feel he desrves a spot in the side anyway. Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Kapil, Murali is the attack I'd go for.

 

[watson]

I'll say first that Kapil Dev deserves a spot in this team, somehow one needs to be found. But to justify his spot as opening bowler because of his batting doesn't sit right with me. He deserves the spot as a bowler or not at all. I know some people take that extra batting, but for me I want to take the twenty wickets as quick and as cheap as I can.
It's a tough call because Kapil Dev is ****ing, I'm just saying it needs to be for the right reasons

I voted for Imran and Akram as the new ball bowlers. It seems at this stage that there will be a 4 pronged pace attack plus Murali because Sangakkara is cemented into the No.6 spot and Waqar has a ton of votes. Kind of predictable and maybe not quite as interesting as having 3 quicks and 2 spinners. For example;

06. Vinoo Mankad
07. Kapil Dev
08. Imran Khan
09. Keeper
10. Wasim Akram
11. Murali

No doubt that Waqar deserves his spot though.

 

[harsh.ag]

Think Wasim and Imran to open. Waqar as first change. The other two to be spinners - Murali and one of Gupte, Chandra (as a specialist spinner) or Mankad, Shakib (as an all-rounder)

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

I only considered the 2 best opening bowlers and not whether the pick could slot as an all-rounder - who said an opening bowler can't be the all-rounder anyway?

Imran + Fazal. Could easily have been Imran + Waqar/Wasim as well. Only thing certain is that it's an all-Pakistan pick.

Fazal is an interesting choice. Interested to know who would you prefer to come as first change. Fazal was a great bowler. Picked wickets regularly when on not so bowling friendly pitches. Has some great numbers against quailty bats. But he does not trump wasim/waqar imo.

 

[viriya]

Fazal is an interesting choice. Interested to know who would you prefer to come as first change. Fazal was a great bowler. Picked wickets regularly when on not so bowling friendly pitches. Has some great numbers against quailty bats. But he does not trump wasim/waqar imo.

I think Fazal is highly underrated while Wasim is highly overrated (in Tests). Just to give a small idea on how much more effective Fazal was in Tests compared to Wasim - he has almost as many 10-wicket hauls but played a third of the matches.

I do think that Wasim was the best left-arm fast bowler of all time, but that uniqueness aside he is not clearly better than the other 3 big guys from his country.

I would pick Waqar over Wasim for the 3rd option since he is better with the older ball.. No Wasim in AT Subcontinent XI - I know I committed blasphemy.

tbf, he might get in just cos it will be 3 right-arm seamers otherwise. There is really not much to choose between the four of them imo so any combination of two can work.

 

[cnerd123]

Fazal has a higher 10 wicket haul percentage because the bowlers around him were weaker and he bowled a greater % of overs.

Even if he is as good or slightly better than Wasim, Wasim wins it for left-handedness.

 

[smash84]

I think Fazal is highly underrated while Wasim is highly overrated (in Tests). Just to give a small idea on how much more effective Fazal was in Tests compared to Wasim - he has almost as many 10-wicket hauls but played a third of the matches.

I do think that Wasim was the best left-arm fast bowler of all time, but that uniqueness aside he is not clearly better than the other 3 big guys from his country.

I would pick Waqar over Wasim for the 3rd option since he is better with the older ball.. No Wasim in AT Subcontinent XI - I know I committed blasphemy.

tbf, he might get in just cos it will be 3 right-arm seamers otherwise. There is really not much to choose between the four of them imo so any combination of two can work.

Wasim was exceptional. I don't think anybody can over rate his skill with the ball. He was definitely a better test bowler than Waqar. More consistent throughout his career and maintaining his longevity despite being a diabetic from mid 90s onwards. Was just an exceptional bowler.

 

[viriya]

Fazal has a higher 10 wicket haul percentage because the bowlers around him were weaker and he bowled a greater % of overs.

Even if he is as good or slightly better than Wasim, Wasim wins it for left-handedness.

That's a decent argument, but doesn't explain it away completely.. he just had more impact performances than Wasim/Waqar in general.

Also - imo it doesn't matter that Wasim was left-handed. It's about being most effective at the end of the day and now "how" you get the wickets.