New Zealand's golden summer celebratory thread

[hendrix]

I think Hesson has been instrumental in getting the young players into the team, and establishing a team composition that prioritises taking 20 wickets.

It was painful in Bangladesh and we roundly criticised him for the team composition there, but that ultimately established Corey Anderson at number 6 as well as bring about the end of flirting with domestic spinners like Bartin who were never likely to win us tests.

 

[SteveNZ]

John Bracewell looked pretty good as a coach when we had Bond and Mk1 Franklin opening the bowling, correlation does not equal causation. Still, at the least it does appear as if he's re-established a working relationship with Taylor and I think he's been very sound with his team selections so far (barring playing Ish at Eden Park).

Don't necessarily disagree, but to simply cast it off as Hesson has superior cattle would be to ignore that John Wright had nigh-on exactly the same guys - and a better spin option that didn't leak pressure.

I'm totally unsure what role Hesson has to play in this all, as no one outside the sanctum does. Taylor/McCullum/Southee/Boult/Watling have all reached their peak and produced consistent world-class performances - you could argue that as coming into their primes, in reasonably unrelated timing, or that the current management has a lot to do with it. The likes of Anderson and Neesham have been introduced and managed very well, and other successes such as highlighted earlier in this thread.

The greatest success of all - whatever your original stance on it was - that the captaincy debacle has been well and truly put behind us. Cricketers can be stubborn folk, and I thought Hesson had walked the plank with half the side before he'd even begun. There were powerful cliques forming, and that all seems to be a thing of the past. I don't believe he's a technical maestro, but I believe his general management skills must be of a very high order.

My post also wasn't to say 'Cmon let's give this guy all the rich praise he truly deserves', it was more a gauge of where everyone's head is at on him.

 

[Bahnz]

Don't necessarily disagree, but to simply cast it off as Hesson has superior cattle would be to ignore that John Wright had nigh-on exactly the same guys - and a better spin option that didn't leak pressure.

I'm totally unsure what role Hesson has to play in this all, as no one outside the sanctum does. Taylor/McCullum/Southee/Boult/Watling have all reached their peak and produced consistent world-class performances - you could argue that as coming into their primes, in reasonably unrelated timing, or that the current management has a lot to do with it. The likes of Anderson and Neesham have been introduced and managed very well, and other successes such as highlighted earlier in this thread.

The greatest success of all - whatever your original stance on it was - that the captaincy debacle has been well and truly put behind us. Cricketers can be stubborn folk, and I thought Hesson had walked the plank with half the side before he'd even begun. There were powerful cliques forming, and that all seems to be a thing of the past. I don't believe he's a technical maestro, but I believe his general management skills must be of a very high order.

My post also wasn't to say 'Cmon let's give this guy all the rich praise he truly deserves', it was more a gauge of where everyone's head is at on him.

Fully agree that it's very difficult to judge the role that Hesson has played in this turn around. But fundamentally, New Zealand's improvement as a team has been built around KW and Taylor's sustained excellence and the Boult-Southee new ball pairing. You certainly can't attribute the former to Hesson, as Taylor was playing matchwinning innings at the same time that he and Hesson were clearly working against one another. And I really doubt whether you can link Southee's sudden and unexpected blossoming into a top class fast bowler to Hesson's influence either, as he was already showing significant signs of improvement on the 2012 tour of WI. So my opinion of Hesson largely remains that he's been in the right place at the right time.

I would also state that everything I've heard this summer suggests that there are still very strong cliques in the New Zealand side. But it is a lot easier to get along when you're winning.

 

[Bahnz]

Also disagree a little bit about Wright having the same guys. The team he took into the first test against WI was:

Flynn
Guptill
McCullum
Taylor
KW
Brownlie
van Wyk
Vettori
Bracewell
Wagner
Martin

Different opening combo, McCullum still out of his element at the top of the order, Brownlie all at sea against spin, van Wyk not a patch on Watling (either in terms of keeping or batting) and a seam trio of Wagner, a past it Martin and Bracewell. The current side would beat that lot by an innings.

 

[hendrix]

The decision to make McCullum captain was the correct one, it just wasn't managed very well.

The other big move he made was putting McCullum into the middle order. I'm still not sure whether that was the right call because now it appears we lack both openers as well as back up middle order batsmen. But it hasn't been unsuccessful in that McCullum has scored runs.

Another shift has been towards the mentality of "play the game you know how to play" when coming into the team. That may actually serve guys like Guptill a bit better (but not really because he doesn't have the technique for test cricket). Neesh and Anderson have never really looked to play a defensive game and nor should they; they're not skilled enough batsmen yet to perform a Taylor/Williamson/Watling/McCullum-like innings.

 

[Bahnz]

The other big move he made was putting McCullum into the middle order. I'm still not sure whether that was the right call because now it appears we lack both openers as well as back up middle order batsmen. But it hasn't been unsuccessful in that McCullum has scored runs.

Does anyone else think that in a couple of years there's a good chance that KW will shift one spot up the order to open?

NZ top order 2016
Latham
KW
Ryder ()
Taylor
O'Donnell/Young/Macewell/Crachopa
Anderson

 

[Flem274*]

God I hope not, but I can see calls for it.

If anything I think he'll drop down to number four in 2020. I don't think the blokes coming through will be in the same league he or Taylor and co. are so I can see the "best batsman at four" mentality seeing the future skipper slip down with Michael Bracewell or perhaps a technician like Young slipping into first drop and averaging high 30s.

 

[Bahnz]

God I hope not, but I can see calls for it.

If anything I think he'll drop down to number four in 2020. I don't think the blokes coming through will be in the same league he or Taylor and co. are so I can see the "best batsman at four" mentality seeing the future skipper slip down with Michael Bracewell or perhaps a technician like Young slipping into first drop and averaging high 30s.

Ehhh...I do think it would be easier for most of those guys to be passable test players at 4 than at 3, and KW has only ever batted at number 3, even when he was easily the best player in his side (at ND). It's important to remember that in the last 20 years we've only produced two players who've had consistent success at number 3 over a significant period of time (more than 10 games) - Fleming and KW (although I think Taylor would've done fine at number 3 as well). Finding a guy to replace Williamson to a competent (averaging 35+) standard is likely to be extremely difficult.

 

[Jono]

I think it would be remiss of New Zealand posters not to post something on New Zealand cricket after this golden summer. Test series wins over the West Indies and India (no.2 in the world). One-day series win over India 4-0 (no.1 in the world).

Our captain, who got the job in dubious circumstances which caused a national uproar little more than 18 months ago, scores 300 by himself to ensure a series win over India when we looked dead and gone in the second test.

The ex-captain, who could have quit the game and no one could have blamed him that much considering the manner of his dismissal from the top job, scores 3 centuries in 3 matches.

The Southee/Boult new ball partnership.

Wagner finally putting some performances on the board.

Just about the only negatives are Ryder being Ryder, and the openers continuing the long tradition of direness post-Richardson.


I could go on and on, but I'll stop here and say that as a long suffering follower of New Zealand cricket for 20 years, this has made me a very happy man. On ya boys.

Thankfully the toss of a coin at Wellington did not ruin the NZ Golden Summer, hey?


Nah in all seriousness well done NZ fans, well deserved success. So awesome for cricket in the country - will never forget those scenes on day 5 at the ground.

 

[Dan]

God I hope not, but I can see calls for it.

If anything I think he'll drop down to number four in 2020. I don't think the blokes coming through will be in the same league he or Taylor and co. are so I can see the "best batsman at four" mentality seeing the future skipper slip down with Michael Bracewell or perhaps a technician like Young slipping into first drop and averaging high 30s.

That's "adorable future captain" to you, ****.

Go write some CD fan fic

 

[Days of Grace]

Let's not worry about the future just yet.

Top 3 moments of the summer:
1. Wagner bowling Dhoni at Eden Park to all but seal the win. The no-ball deliberation was the most tense moment of the summer for me. Crown nearly knocking out Bryan Waddle and Waddle yelping in pain/joy just capped it off.
2. The 300th run scored and the Jimmeh's debut ton just minutes before.
3. Corey's hit to break the world record.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Let's not worry about the future just yet.

Top 3 moments of the summer:
1. Wagner bowling Dhoni at Eden Park to all but seal the win. The no-ball deliberation was the most tense moment of the summer for me. Crown nearly knocking out Bryan Waddle and Waddle yelping in pain/joy just capped it off.
2. The 300th run scored and the Jimmeh's debut ton just minutes before.
3. Corey's hit to break the world record.

I'd add in a couple more:

4. The Basin win against WI - after the Dunedin draw I was wondering when they'd ever win again - pulling draws from the jaws of victory
5. Winning the 4th ODI after the Auckland tie, I fully expected India to win the next two and finish at 2-2

(I guess these two show how I've learnt to expect failure)

 

[Zinzan]

Seriously is great to see NZ cricket doing so well after all the **** that has gone down with them the last couple of years.

I was wondering, what would their highest standing in test cricket ever have been? Could be wrong here but have they ever been considered a top 4 side? Despite what the rankings say, IMO you have South Africa and Australia out in front at the moment with probably nothing between India, England and NZ. If the kiwis can keep performing at this standard (and there is no reason to think they can't) they have every chance of becoming a top 3 side.

They didn't have ratings back in the 80s, but doubt many who watched cricket back then would argue too much about NZ being a close 3rd in terms of the best test teams of the 1980s (slightly behind Pakistan and obviously a long way behind the Windies).

Also, when the ratings first started around 2002, NZ were ranked 3rd in tests for the first year or so IIRC.

 

[jcas0167]

Anyone willing to lay some praise at Mike Hesson's door?

I think he has to get some credit for the selections, introducing new guys like Anderson & Neesham. I remember Ken Rutherford on radio before the South Africa tour a year ago questioning how Anderson could be in the team based on his domestic record. Hesson seems to have a pretty good sense of who has the ability and temperament to succeed and then backs them to do so.

In terms of the coaching, Shane Bond presumably deserves a fair amount of credit for the ongoing development of the bowling attack.

Chris Cairns has been calling for Michael Bevan to be involved as a batting coach ahead of the World Cup. They don't seem to be doing too badly with Bob Carter though.

 

[Zinzan]

They didn't have ratings back in the 80s, but doubt many who watched cricket back then would argue too much about NZ being a close 3rd in terms of the best test teams of the 1980s (slightly behind Pakistan and obviously a long way behind the Windies).

Also, when the ratings first started around 2002, NZ were ranked 3rd in tests for the first year or so IIRC.

^ In fact here you go, ICC Test rankings started in 2003 and NZ were 3rd for almost every month that year International Cricket Council - Match Zone - Test Ranking

 

[jcas0167]

4. The Basin win against WI - after the Dunedin draw I was wondering when they'd ever win again - pulling draws from the jaws of victory
5. Winning the 4th ODI after the Auckland tie, I fully expected India to win the next two and finish at 2-2

(I guess these two show how I've learnt to expect failure)

That Dunedin draw seems such a long time ago! Another despairing moment that ended in triumph, was when we inserted the Windies in Hamilton on a pitch that appeared to be perfect for Narine & the Windies spin attack (I think McCullum later admitted that toss decision was a mistake). Despite another Taylor ton, the Windies posted a first innings lead with Narine taking six wickets. At that point I thought that was going to be a Windies win & drawn series.

Then somehow we rolled them for 103 and cruised to victory.

 

[Hurricane]

I think Hesson was smart not to appear on TV or the radio to try to grab any responsibility for the golden summer. He has basically just let the guys efforts speak for themselves. I will for ever think he is dishonest however. In terms of how much credit he gets for the golden summer - I would say 7 out of 10. The selection of Neesham over Sodhi was particularly good.

However as "coach" he needs to accept some blame for the openers not performing - either select new guys or actually help them to improve and you know teach them to overcome their weaknesses. You may argue the coach is not responsible for players failing. However I feel at times the openers batted with the wrong level of tempo and aggression (they went for their shots too much in the first ten overs). And that is a coaching issue.

 

[Flem274*]

That's "adorable future captain" to you, ****.

Go write some CD fan fic

*adorable future captain Big Daddy Kane. Get it right ****.

And you think I'm not gonna write it don't you?

 

[Bahnz]

One of my favourite aspects of the summer was KW's ODI batting. He seriously looked like he could've batted forever against India if it weren't for those pesky slog overs. Five successive half centuries. Kane "Steady the ship" Williamson didn't quite have a true golden summer, but he definitely established himself as a batsman of the highest class.

 

[Hurricane]

My memories

Standing for ovations at the basin.
Thinking I was going to have to home early from the basin at 90-5
McCullum getting clapped for a leave during a tense piece of batting.
That guy diving in front of the orange shirt guy 2 rows in front of me.
Clapping Ross for two different tons. One at Westpac and one at Heef's beloved basin.