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Thread: Best Chinaman bowlers in Test Cricket

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    U19 12th Man
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    Best Chinaman bowlers in Test Cricket

    Who are the best chinaman bowlers in the history of test cricket? Apart from Sobers I can't think of many. Paul Adams was a left arm wrist spinner but turned the ball away from the right handed batsman as his main delivery, so wasn't technically a chinaman.

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    Michael Bevan and Brad Hogg?? Although Hogg took over 150 wickets in ODI's rather than Tests.

    Bevan was a good bowler and pushed them through. He troubled the Saffers didn't he? He took over 30 wickets in Tests though.

    Going right back you have Chuck Fleetwood-Smith apparently a very good bowler but was faced with much competition.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Johnny Wardle bowled wrist spin to great effect in South Africa in 1956/57 which, as Denis Compton played in that series as well, meant that England had a pair of them
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    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Statistically it's Katich isn't it?

    I'm sure I've looked this up and Katich is up there statistically with anyone.


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    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    Johnny Wardle bowled wrist spin to great effect in South Africa in 1956/57 which, as Denis Compton played in that series as well, meant that England had a pair of them
    If Dennis Compton was a chinaman bowler then i am a Dutchman....

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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark68 View Post
    If Dennis Compton was a chinaman bowler then i am a Dutchman....
    I'm sure you look good in an orange suit
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    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    Statistically it's Katich isn't it?

    I'm sure I've looked this up and Katich is up there statistically with anyone.
    Paul Adams is pretty comfortably the best left arm wrist spinner statistically, but as pointed out his stock ball turned away from the RHB so I'm not sure if he really counts. Beyond that, Fleetwood-Smith has the next most wickets (42w @ 37), followed by Lindsay Kline (34w @ 22), Michael Bevan (29w @ 24), Denis Compton (26w @ 56) and then Katich (21w @ 30).

    I think you'd have to give the title to Kline based on that, especially since he was employed as a frontline, specialist bowler during his career.
    ~ Cribbage

    Quote Originally Posted by Riggins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by simonlee48 View Post
    Sanga has done well but Murali has done better. In my opinion, Murali is simply the best off spinner in history of cricket and I can't make that kind of statement for Sanga.
    Sanga isn't the best off spinner in the history of cricket? News to me.

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    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Turns out I was getting Katich's wickets and average the wrong way round then.

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    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
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    its funny that there haven't been more. can't think there would be any reason for the method to be any less successful than leggies or offies, and even more so with the abundance of lhb's around these days
    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    I just love all kinds of balls.

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    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uvelocity View Post
    its funny that there haven't been more. can't think there would be any reason for the method to be any less successful than leggies or offies, and even more so with the abundance of lhb's around these days
    Well, there's been what, 6 or 7 really good leggies in the history of the game? Considering that us lefties only make up 1 in 10 of the population, it's not really that remarkable that there hasn't been a great chinaman bowler.

    There's other reasons as well, Top_Cat (IIRC) made a post a while ago that explained why chinaman bowling was more difficult than being a leggie.

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    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    Turns out I was getting Katich's wickets and average the wrong way round then.
    I made the same mistake with McGrath once. Couldn't believe people were including a pedestrian bowler averaging 563 with the ball in their all time team.
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    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
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    here's top ****s post

    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Left-arm wristies aren't closely analogous to right-arm offies at higher levels, mainly because they have fewer effective options to keep a bat on strike for a decent period of time which, really, is what matters against guys who can bat. Even if the bloke is getting massive turn, you know a loose one is coming soon but a bigger factor is that you get a really good look at the line of the ball with a leftie wrist-spinner bowling over the wicket. So you can look to tuck away just about anything with low risk and knowing which ones to leave is pretty obvious because the bowler has to pitch them so wide to stop this. This applies double if they bowl around the wicket. A wrong'un won't save the bowler either because the line means it's a relatively easy decision for a batsman to decide whether to milk or leave the ball.

    Big turn and tricks aren't everything at higher levels and blokes who rip a ball square are a dime-a-dozen at all levels. It wasn't Murali's bag of tricks that got so many bats out, it was the fairly relentless pressure he applied because batters knew they'd be facing him all day and that he had more subtle crease and line variations available to him so you can put more guys on the off-side. Left-arm wristies never have that luxury and rarely one of an attacking off-side field so facing them is fairly simple in the end; smash the more frequent loose offerings, work them away if they do land a ball and leave the clearly wide ones.
    i dont know if any of that is any different to leggies bowling to lefties tbh

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    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uvelocity View Post
    here's top ****s post



    i dont know if any of that is any different to leggies bowling to lefties tbh

    It's not really, but lefties are a lot rarer at youth and lower levels of cricket where players first decide what it is they're going to bowl. If you're left handed and 70%+ of opposition players bat right handed then deciding to work on your wrist spin is basically a detriment to the team you're playing in, will make life much harder for you as a bowler and will be less effective than bowling orthodox spin to the same standard despite being much more difficult to master. Left handed batsmen are a little more common at Test level but that's not really what you're thinking about when you're ten years old; you just want the captain to give you a bowl. Even if you can bowl both when you get a bit older, orthodox spin is going to get you the figures you need to gain rep selection etc.
    Last edited by Prince EWS; 01-01-2014 at 06:23 PM.

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    Jack Walsh could have been a good one. Played most of his career as a pro in England.

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    International Coach KiWiNiNjA's Avatar
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    I tried left-arm wristies for a while there, but realised I got better results with my right-arm.

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