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Thread: ***Official*** India in New Zealand 2013/14

  1. #31
    International Coach Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Williamson, Taylor, McCullum, Southee and Boult were decent international cricketers which makes the current side better.
    They had o'brien and vettori so clearly the bowling is better now
    But the batting was better then ryder, taylor, baz who didn't suck and vettori. Today it is just taylor and kw.
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  2. #32
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Martin - awful bowler during this period
    This was actually one of Marto's better series though. Don't know whether getting dropped for the WI series earlier in the summer gave him a kick up the arse, but he was our best bowler across the three tests by a distance.
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  3. #33
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    True. But I think that's countered by the fact that no matter how much you rate the promise of Pujara, Kohli and Rahane and their overseas ability, they aren't anywhere near as good as Tendulkar, Laxman and Dravid were overseas. Not yet anyway. So this team is definitely no where near the 2009 team. Add to the fact that Zaheer, Sehwag and Gambhir (who saved the 2nd test in that series with his Kirsten-like batting) were in the peak of their careers, and really I think that Indian team of 2009 is far far better than this team touring NZ.

    So NZ may have been worse back then, but India were better back then as well. They'd have beaten most teams NZ put out (at least on the pitches that were served up). I mean they were a bee's dick and some better weather away from 2-0 as well.

    This time, whilst India are coming off a reasonably good South African tour, they still lost the series. Still a lot for this team to prove. And its kind of unknown how good Zaheer will be still imo.
    Yeah I do fully agree with this. When I said I agreed with Phlegm's overall point I meant his overall point about the quality of the NZ side in 2009 compared to now, not the overall point of his post (which seemed to change about nine times ).

    That 2009 side was basically the peak of Indian Test cricket in history. Indian fans can definitely be optimistic about the current lot and their potential to eclipse that but they've got a lot to prove before they get there.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    This was actually one of Marto's better series though. Don't know whether getting dropped for the WI series earlier in the summer gave him a kick up the arse, but he was our best bowler across the three tests by a distance.
    Bahnz defending Chris Martin?


  5. #35
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Haha, I think this might be a stalemate because I don't see many of the Indian posters daring to believe, and I can understand that. When India went to SA though I was expecting a bloodbath because with the greatest respect to the previous generation, if you put them in certain situations they tended to fall to pieces. Especially blokes not called Dravid and Tendulkar (though they had their moments). They were excellent players but there were chinks in the armour. When I watched how well Vijay, Pujara and Kohli left the ball (I didn't get to watch much of Sharma or Rahane sadly because I had to come home to stone age internet halfway through the first test) and applied themselves I was surprised and impressed. This lot are definitely more aware of how to succeed overseas than their forebears, and it's more impressive when you consider history tells us the first tour to South Africa or a similarly nasty country can be messy for young Indian batsmen.

    When you couple that with the bowling attack which is just genuinely good and much better than the 2009 side with the exception of Ishant then India are well placed to be better overseas than perhaps they have ever been.
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  6. #36
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    Just statin' the facts brah.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    They had o'brien and vettori so clearly the bowling is better now
    But the batting was better then ryder, taylor, baz who didn't suck and vettori. Today it is just taylor and kw.
    I definitely don't think McCullum was a better batsman then than he is now. Just seemed like it because he wasn't playing as a specialist batsman IMO. The difference is Vettori I guess - better than the current fourth best batsman which is Watling, but it's offset a bit by the better batsmen being a bit higher in the order this time. Having your contributing players at 3, 4, 5 and 7 is healthier than having them at 4, 5, 7 and 8. Plus, Taylor has gone to another level now. I don't think there's much difference in the batting even if we assume that Fulton, Rutherford and Anderson are going to become the next McIntosh, Guptill and Franklin, which really is very much a worst case scenario thing, and the bowling is much stronger now.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    I think O'Brien is looked back on with rose tinted glasses, tbh.
    Nah most of us were on here during his main career and while we rubbished him at first, he won us over in England and we loved him ever since. Heef always believed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    They had o'brien and vettori so clearly the bowling is better now
    But the batting was better then ryder, taylor, baz who didn't suck and vettori. Today it is just taylor and kw.
    Taylor now is a bit of a level up, but while the engine room was good back then they also had bigger passengers. Fulton, KW, Watling and Anderson as they are now would stroll into the 2009 side.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    This was actually one of Marto's better series though. Don't know whether getting dropped for the WI series earlier in the summer gave him a kick up the arse, but he was our best bowler across the three tests by a distance.
    I'm struggling to remember here but wasn't 2009 right in the middle of his 2007-2010 "I'm going to bowl 10km outside off and switch to around the wicket every two balls" phase?

  9. #39
    Cricketer Of The Year hendrix's Avatar
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    Nah as impressive as it's been from Vijay, Gambhir at that point in his career was an absolute monster. He left the ball exceptionally well and was a more natural leaver than Vijay, it didn't look forced at all. No bowler in the world knew how to get him out.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    Just statin' the facts brah.
    Truth be told, Martin was comfortably NZs best bowler in that series.

  11. #41
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Haha, I think this might be a stalemate because I don't see many of the Indian posters daring to believe, and I can understand that. When India went to SA though I was expecting a bloodbath because with the greatest respect to the previous generation, if you put them in certain situations they tended to fall to pieces. Especially blokes not called Dravid and Tendulkar (though they had their moments). They were excellent players but there were chinks in the armour. When I watched how well Vijay, Pujara and Kohli left the ball (I didn't get to watch much of Sharma or Rahane sadly because I had to come home to stone age internet halfway through the first test) and applied themselves I was surprised and impressed. This lot are definitely more aware of how to succeed overseas than their forebears, and it's more impressive when you consider history tells us the first tour to South Africa or a similarly nasty country can be messy for young Indian batsmen.

    When you couple that with the bowling attack which is just genuinely good and much better than the 2009 side with the exception of Ishant then India are well placed to be better overseas than perhaps they have ever been.
    I think you're selling that Indian team short. From 2007-2010 that Indian team beat England in England 1-0, lost 2-1 to Australia in Australia including losing that infamous Sydney test, beat NZ 1-0 and then drew South Africa in South Africa 1-1. Laxman, Tendulkar and Dravid were all guns overseas, and each of them saved India overseas in all four of those countries.
    Last edited by Jono; 31-12-2013 at 09:13 PM.
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  12. #42
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Sorry, should have clarified: When I talk about the previous generation I meant 2000-2010, which includes Ganguly etc. There were tours where their techniques went missing.

  13. #43
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Yeah, there are definitely promising signs from this current side, especially given the ages of the batsmen. There's plenty to get excited about and there' no doubt about that.

    But the side that toured New Zealand in 2009 was India's greatest ever Test side and had accomplished far, far more. It was a seriously good side, especially if you're primarily talking about the overseas techniques of the batsmen (as you are). You want to talk about showing fight in South Africa; they won a Test there and drew the series.

  14. #44
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    Obviously what people want and what we will get will most likely be different. What do people think the actual test squad for NZ will be?

  15. #45
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    New Zealand should win the test series. Definitely cannot see them losing on their grounds. ODIs will be tough.



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