Page 1 of 12 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 175
Like Tree44Likes

Thread: The allrounder cut-off

  1. #1
    State Regular GuyFromLancs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Lancashire
    Posts
    946

    The allrounder cut-off

    Where do we draw the line between allrounder, and say, bowling allrounder. Take these 3 fictional players -

    1. Averages 32 with the ball (4 wickets per match), and 26 with that bat

    2. Averages 23 with the ball (4 wickets per match), and 17 with the bat

    3. Averages 52 with that bat, and 36 with the ball (2.8 wickets per match)



    Opinions please ...
    World XI Since 1990 -

    1. Gooch 2. Dravid 3. Ponting 4. Tendulkar 5. Lara 6. Kallis 7. Gilchrist 8. Akram 9. Warne 10. Ambrose 11. McGrath

  2. #2
    International Vice-Captain BeeGee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,880
    IMO, a bowler with a batting average less than 20 isn't an allrounder.

    Judging whether a batsman can be classed as an allrounder based on bowling average or wickets is more difficult. Often the ability to contain and slow down the scoring rate can be almost as valuable as taking wickets.

  3. #3
    International Debutant harsh.ag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    India
    Posts
    2,625
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromLancs View Post
    Where do we draw the line between allrounder, and say, bowling allrounder. Take these 3 fictional players -

    1. Averages 32 with the ball (4 wickets per match), and 26 with that bat

    2. Averages 23 with the ball (4 wickets per match), and 17 with the bat

    3. Averages 52 with that bat, and 36 with the ball (2.8 wickets per match)
    Which bat are we talking about here, and why is it producing such wildly different results?
    smalishah84, andyc and Garson007 like this.

  4. #4
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    still scratching around in the same old hole
    Posts
    15,136
    Based on the age old philosophy that anyone who averages more with the bat than the ball is a fine cricketer, Ill take #3
    Garson007 likes this.
    If I only just posted the above post, please wait 5 mins before replying as there is bound to be edits

    West Robham Rabid Wolves Caedere lemma quod eat lemma

    Happy Birthday! (easier than using Birthday threads)

    Email and MSN- Goughy at cricketmail dot net


  5. #5
    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    9,825
    Where are Smali's Smiley's? His name should be changed to Likeyshah84.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Yeah, look, it gives me a pain deep inside my uterus to admit it, but it's Ajmal until such time as we get a working throwing law again.
    Never in a million years would I have thought Brumby to admit this!!!!!!

  6. #6
    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    9,825
    The answer to this thread is Imran Khan!

  7. #7
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,813
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromLancs View Post
    Where do we draw the line between allrounder, and say, bowling allrounder. Take these 3 fictional players -

    1. Averages 32 with the ball (4 wickets per match), and 26 with that bat

    2. Averages 23 with the ball (4 wickets per match), and 17 with the bat

    3. Averages 52 with that bat, and 36 with the ball (2.8 wickets per match)



    Opinions please ...
    1. Could possibly bat at 7, better at 8. Borderline bowling all rounder.

    2. Bit similar to someone like Jason Gillespie or the way I imagine Patto will end up. Gun bowler and handy batsman, but would bat no higher than 8 or 9 in a strong test side. Not an all rounder.

    3. Gun batsman, very handy bowler. Batting AR. 3 wickets per tests is brilliant output for someone averaging over 50 with the bat. Kallis/Sobers type.
    hendrix likes this.

  8. #8
    International Captain Maximas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Footmarks
    Posts
    6,258
    Bowling average over 40 or batting average under 20 and I'd say you're pushing it for an all-rounder
    There are two colours in my head

    Sugarealm

  9. #9
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    still scratching around in the same old hole
    Posts
    15,136
    Quote Originally Posted by Maximas View Post
    Bowling average over 40 or batting average under 20 and I'd say you're pushing it for an all-rounder
    So when, after 20 Tests, Botham had a batting average over 40 AND bowling average under 20 he wasnt an allrounder?

  10. #10
    International Coach
    Suicide Bob Champion!
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Not really needed on CW
    Posts
    12,701
    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    So when, after 20 Tests, Botham had a batting average over 40 AND bowling average under 20 he wasnt an allrounder?
    Why not? Meets both criteria Maximas put up.

  11. #11
    International Captain Maximas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Footmarks
    Posts
    6,258
    I meant to imply one or the other, obviously when the player is starting out or is simply **** in both batting and bowling my criteria doesn't really apply

  12. #12
    State Vice-Captain schearzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Isla de Muerta
    Posts
    1,352
    1,2 are both good to have in a side but neither would be seen genuine allrounder in my books. They're handy lower order bats, where number 3 is a great bat and more than handy bowler, I'm thinking someone used fairly often if he's getting 2.8 wickets a match.
    Current Favourite XI 1. Cook 2. Gayle 3. Sangakarra 4. Clarke* 5. Chanderpaul 6. Rahane 7. De Kock+ 8.Johnson 9.Steyn 10. Herath 11. Roach

    I want West Indies to be competitive again

  13. #13
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Marrickville
    Posts
    18,127
    Having done some calculations the cut off to be a batting all rounder is:

    Batting average above 41.80
    Bowling average below 41.17
    NRL Tipping Champion 2014

  14. #14
    State Vice-Captain schearzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Isla de Muerta
    Posts
    1,352
    unsure of seriousness of those numbers, but probably not far off, probably drop the ave to 35 either way?

  15. #15
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    w.i
    Posts
    4,159
    Batting All Rounders
    Garry Sobers
    Jacques Kallis
    Wally Hammond
    Frank Worrell
    Eddie Barlow
    Bob Simpson
    Tony Grieg

    Bowling All Rounders
    Imran Khan
    Richard Hadlee
    Wasim Akran
    Shaun Pollock

    Allan Davidson
    Ray Lindwall
    Malcolm Marshall
    Shane Warne
    Mike Proctor

    All Rounders
    Ian Botham
    Keith Miller
    Aubrey Faulkner
    Brian McMillan
    Trevor Goddard
    Fred Flintoff

    Batting All Rounders are players who would be selected based on their batting alone who also are capable fifth bowlers whose bowling average are lower than their batting average and gets at least one wicket per match.

    Bowling All Rounders are players who would be selected based on their bowling alone who have an average over twenty and are useful lower order batsmen who could possibly bat as high as No. 7 and capable of scoring fifties when required to rescue or strengthen the team's position.

    Genuine All Rounders are players who play on the strength of both disciplines though probably wouldn't be able to secure their place based on either alone. So either they play primarily as bowlers and hurt the strength of the attack but strengthen the batting depth or bat in the top 6 and weaken the batting but strengthen the bowling depth.

    Personally I prefer to have a batting and a bowling All rounder to provide a strong fifth bowler and strong batting depth at No. 8. The only way a genuine all rounder fits into a team is if there is a wicket keeping All Rounder whose batting can make up for the batting deficiency.

    On another tangent, it is always useful to have a batsman like a Worrell who can bat and also contribute with the ball, and a bowler like Hadlee who can also contribute with the bat. Similarly batsmen and bowlers who are exceptional slip fielders like Chappell, Ponting, Lara, Warne, Cook and Swann are just as importance to team balance and success.

    Hence (Not including players listed above)

    Batting Slip Fielders
    Ricky Ponting
    Brian Lara
    Greg Chappell
    Everton Weekes
    Allan Boder
    Rahul Dravid
    Bruce Mitchell
    Clive Lloyd

    Of course ther are also the keeping All Rounders who are more important than the slip fielding ones like Gilchrist, Knott, Waite, Ames, Walcott, Dujon ect, though some would argue always go for the best wicketkeeper regardless.

    Wicket Keeping All Rounders
    Adam Gilchrist
    Allan Knott
    John Waite
    Clyde Walcott
    Kumar Sangakkara
    Matt Prior
    Les Ames
    Jeff Dujon
    Mark Boucher
    Dennis lindsay
    M.S Dhoni
    Last edited by kyear2; 20-10-2013 at 08:54 AM.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Waite+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

Page 1 of 12 12311 ... LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. 1 Allrounder or 2?
    By xanderbiscuits in forum Fantasy Cricket
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-05-2007, 05:08 PM
  2. The Best Allrounder All Time?
    By Anoop in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 158
    Last Post: 24-11-2005, 01:43 AM
  3. Anyone need an allrounder?
    By Eclipse in forum World Club Cricket
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-02-2003, 03:03 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •