Can Ajantha Mendis revive his test career?

[MrPrez]

I reckon he can easily be test standard. Whether he can revive his career is another thing.

If guys like Lyon and Peterson can pass as test spinners in the modern era, and not be completely destroyed, there is little doubt in my mind that he can be test standard. However, I'm not sure he'll be able to step in front of Herath et al to have another pot at Test cricket.

 

[karan316]

Mendis doesn't spin the ball. He imparts backward spin only. Ajmals, Kumbles and Underwoods imparted forward spin on the ball. Since it is generated off the weakest finger movement possible, it's not going to spin much. Mendis needs a orthodox off break or a orthodox leg break is the stock ball. Otherwise, he'll be seen as a slow medium bowler who will be cannon fodder.

Feel like continuing the debate on Mendis after Migara's reply in the SL Pak thread.

Back to the topic, Ajmal relies more on his variations than anything else to succeed. He does impart a bit of forward spin, but he doesn't really get that amount of dip or drift. Kumble's biggest asset was his control and ability to out think batsmen with subtle variations which came only with experience. He has had bad times in his career and was considered quite one dimensional at one point of time, but he grew as a bowler as he got more experience. Forward spin was a feature of his bowling, but he became effective only with maturity and his variations did play a big part in his success. Can't comment much on Underwood, haven't seen him that much.

 

[WindieWeathers]

THIS was Narine's recent return to test cricket when he got 6/91 in New Zealand....he was harsly dropped after the Bangledash series of which the tracks were extremely flat..granted he didn't help himself but they dropped him in favor of Shillingford so he ended up missing two test series v Zimbabwe and India (the selectors not picking him to go to India was just shocking)...But what we noticed in the NZ game was he was flighting it much more and was disciplined enough to bowl the traditional off-break the majority of the time and only used his variations as a surprise..the variations are always gonna be in the batsmens mind but with Sunil able to bowl deliveries with a scrambled seem he was able to fool them with normal off-breaks.

 

[Flem274*]

Don't know why you're posting that in the Mendis thread, but you're wrong anyway. If that was flight then his first incarnation bowled underarm. Narine is good because he's bloody hard to read and gets huge turn. Fortunately he hasn't figured out what flight and length alteration is yet and bowls the same stock ball all the time. If he learns to bowl with more sneakiness he's going to be very very good.

 

[jonbrooks]

I remember an old thread on CW where people argued that the lack of a potent stock ball led to his downfall. It was also said that the batsmen had started to pick him and there was no mystery left in his bowling. I agree with the fact that the batsmen had started to pick him, but somewhere I don't think that Mendis cannot become a good test level bowler, a lot of spinners go through bad phases in their career and wickets don't come easily.

Its a bit tough to maintain accuracy with his kind of bowling, but more often than not, he is on target. His performance depends on how accurate he remains more than any other factors that people have highlighted over time. His main weapon is the carrom ball, and its the toughest delivery to execute, especially at the pace at which he bowls it. Mendis becomes ineffective when he doesn't maintain a good accuracy, not because of the batsmen picking him. His early success did not come with mystery alone, it was more because of his immaculate accuracy.

One thing where Mendis does need to improve is his inability against the left handers. He average 16.97 against the right handers and 50.82 against the left handers, with some experience, he will learn how to use the crease more effectively and try out different angles against the left handers.

The last time when he made a come back for a test series after some outstanding domestic performances, he played one test and picked 2 wickets in 43 overs on a flat wicket which had nothing for the spinners. Mendis was dropped after that despite of the fact that Rangana Herath, who has been SL's premier spinner since Murali's retirement, bowled 66 overs for 2 wickets in the same match, and even he was ineffective since the pitch was extremely flat. Problem with guys like Mendis is that there is too much hype around them and the moment they do don't do well, people quickly point out that the batsmen are picking him and he is no longer a threat. Comparison with Murali and the tag of a mystery spinner has hurt him more than anything else. He might not be the next Murali, but he can surely end up being a good test level spinner.

I can relate Mendis to someone like a Kumble, he never gave much flight and relied more on line and length and subtle variations to pick wickets, even he has had phases where he has been ineffective, but he ended up as a world class spinner. I think SL need to be a bit patient with him and give him some space rather than expecting him to replicate the magic he did in the initial phase of his career. He will improve with experience and should definitely get a longer run. It would be ridiculous if a wonderful talent like him gets wasted.

What SL needs to do is play Mendis against teams like NZ. In this way he'll get his confidence up and become a better bowler at test level.

 

[Athlai]

Short answer yes with an if, long answer no with a but.

 

[the big bambino]

My memory of his golden series against India was an ability to make the ball appear to drop on the batsmen which made them over balance as they searched for the corrected length. They rarely got there and the ball would then whip off the pitch often enough finding stumps, pads or edges. Hasn't been able to make batsmen misjudge where they think the ball will pitch since then and seems, as has been said, a slow med bowler.

 

[Maximas]

My memory of his golden series against India was an ability to make the ball appear to drop on the batsmen which made them over balance as they searched for the corrected length. They rarely got there and the ball would then whip off the pitch often enough finding stumps, pads or edges. Hasn't been able to make batsmen misjudge where they think the ball will pitch since then and seems, as has been said, a slow med bowler.

Yeah, it was particularly telling when he toured England, and the batsmen were able to comfortable play him from the crease, no matter which way he was turning the ball. Mendis may have some success with the googly if he continues using it, he tends to flight it quite well

 

[smash84]

Karan, Ajmal flights the ball really nicely. He does that to set the batsman up. Of course he cleverly uses his variations as well but I don't agree that he doesn't flight the ball quite often.

 

[Energetic]

He was very bad in the test series against Bangladesh. Depends what the pitch is like. Can be very dangerous with his variations on a rank turner. I'd save him for teams like New Zealand, Zimbabwe, India and West Indies.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Don't know why you're posting that in the Mendis thread, but you're wrong anyway. If that was flight then his first incarnation bowled underarm. Narine is good because he's bloody hard to read and gets huge turn. Fortunately he hasn't figured out what flight and length alteration is yet and bowls the same stock ball all the time. If he learns to bowl with more sneakiness he's going to be very very good.

Come on Flem..i'm sure you can read above and see other posters have been talking about Narine's bowling compared to Mendis!!..which is why i posted that video of his latest test outing. Also i disagree!!..he does flight it on occasions...he knows how to flight it but it's a patience thing that he has to work on. In the limited overs games getting hit for fours means you bowl flatter after that..but it's not the same in Tests and he's learning that now.

 

[karan316]

Yeah, it was particularly telling when he toured England, and the batsmen were able to comfortable play him from the crease, no matter which way he was turning the ball. Mendis may have some success with the googly if he continues using it, he tends to flight it quite well

He played only 1 match in England and didn't look that bad, bowled well in most part except for 2 or 3 bad overs.

 

[karan316]

Karan, Ajmal flights the ball really nicely. He does that to set the batsman up. Of course he cleverly uses his variations as well but I don't agree that he doesn't flight the ball quite often.

Ajmal does flight it, but just to vary his pace, his flighted deliveries do not drift or dip that much. And his normal off breaks are a lot flatter but effective as compared to the flighted ones.

 

[Maximas]

He played only 1 match in England and didn't look that bad, bowled well in most part except for 2 or 3 bad overs.

It's not that he bowled badly, he just looked innocuous, that's all, and I don't think with his bowling style that he could become dangerous in conditions where the ball isn't turning quite significantly.

 

[karan316]

It's not that he bowled badly, he just looked innocuous, that's all, and I don't think with his bowling style that he could become dangerous in conditions where the ball isn't turning quite significantly.

True, might not be that effective on non turning wickets, but might just improve with experience. There are very few spinners who are actually effective in all conditions. Look at Ashwin's record, despite of being such a good spinner he has been horrible in away conditions. Like I said in my first post, Mendis might not become a "great" spinner, but there is every chance of him becoming a good spinner who can be useful for SL in the long run if handled well.

 

[Migara]

As I said numerous times before, a spinner needs a stock ball that has venom. With spinners, stock ball is the one which is hardest spun, reproducible, and would have a fairly predictable path. Mendis' stock ball is nor hard spun, it's not reproducible (amount of spin varies from ball to ball) and hence highly unpredictable behavior. Unpredictable amount of turn is beneficial if your stock ball spin a mile and when it comes out nicely and some of them go gun barrel straight without apparent reason. Batsman cannot pick them, not even the bowler knows which one is going to spin or not. This is the reason why Ravindra Jadeja is so successful. Mendis' tock balls don't spin much, and best he can achieve is a bat pad by variation of spin. But back spun balls do not kick off the surfaces as forward spun balls, and tend to slide on. Sliding deliveries will not give him bat pads, rather will give him lbws. To get lbws, he should miss the bat by a large margin, and Mendis don't spin it that much. That's why he would be a useless test bowler. I would take Jadeja over him any day.

 

[karan316]

As I said numerous times before, a spinner needs a stock ball that has venom. With spinners, stock ball is the one which is hardest spun, reproducible, and would have a fairly predictable path. Mendis' stock ball is nor hard spun, it's not reproducible (amount of spin varies from ball to ball) and hence highly unpredictable behavior. Unpredictable amount of turn is beneficial if your stock ball spin a mile and when it comes out nicely and some of them go gun barrel straight without apparent reason. Batsman cannot pick them, not even the bowler knows which one is going to spin or not. This is the reason why Ravindra Jadeja is so successful. Mendis' tock balls don't spin much, and best he can achieve is a bat pad by variation of spin. But back spun balls do not kick off the surfaces as forward spun balls, and tend to slide on. Sliding deliveries will not give him bat pads, rather will give him lbws. To get lbws, he should miss the bat by a large margin, and Mendis don't spin it that much. That's why he would be a useless test bowler. I would take Jadeja over him any day.

Completely agree with you when you say that a bowler must have a good stock ball, however, your argument that it has to be "hard spun" doesn't make much sense. For a bowler who can bowl a lot of different varieties, it just has to be a decent delivery which the bowler can bowl repeatedly with a very tight line and mix it up with his other variations. The only delivery which Mendis bowls with backspin is the carrom ball, rest all have either over spin or side spin.

The problem lies in the fact that he is not yet matured enough to use different angles of the crease, and bowl selected deliveries according to the conditions. Maybe working with someone who understands his bowling might help in that case. And yes, there is no alternative to experience, especially for a spinner.

There are always these periods in a spinners careers where the batsmen finds a way to counter his tactics and make him look quite ordinary. Look at Swann, who could have predicted such a performance from him in the Ashes series? He had all the qualities of an orthodox spinner and m sure he could have been back in wickets if he wouldn't have retired.

Ashwin had a horrible series vs England, despite of bowling in home conditions and plenty of turn on offer, he couldn't be effective. There were two reasons for it, firstly, the England batsmen had a set plan for Ashwin, they had prepared well and made Ashwin work hard for his wickets. Secondly, Ashwin was trying to use all his variations rather than being selective. But he was back to his best after that series once he sorted out the issues in his bowling. This is something normal with spinners, they go through such times where they look ineffective, even Harbhajan has been horrible at times, but there were always people backing him and showing trust in his abilities which helped. But guys like Mendis get dropped easily when they go through similar issues because the normal reaction is that the batsmen are reading him well so he is useless. And the expectations are also high from such guys that even a good performance looks like an ordinary one.

The way he is handled, I don't think its doing any good to his confidence either. After working hard in the domestic matches, all he got was 1 test match against Bangladesh on the flattest of wickets. In the recent series, he played 1 T20, bowled 4 overs, picked 1 wicket for 29 runs and was dropped for the next T20, his next game was the 5th ODI of the series. He certainly deserves a longer run and a lot more exposure.

 

[Maximas]

I think the problem with Mendis is more fundamental than him being inexperienced or unable to use his variations smartly or whatever, it's just that unless conditions really suit him (which they rarely do) he can be played more easily than most other spinners due to the fact that he doesn't spin the ball hard. Mendis may have plenty of variety but on most pitches, due to both the speed he bowls at and the lack of spin on the ball, it's just different variations of straight balls tbh. His googly is the only delivery of his that I think actually troubles international batsmen, but he can only use it sparingly which limits the impact that ball has.

 

[Migara]

Completely agree with you when you say that a bowler must have a good stock ball, however, your argument that it has to be "hard spun" doesn't make much sense. For a bowler who can bowl a lot of different varieties, it just has to be a decent delivery which the bowler can bowl repeatedly with a very tight line and mix it up with his other variations. The only delivery which Mendis bowls with backspin is the carrom ball, rest all have either over spin or side spin.

The general agreement is that a spinner have to spin their stock balls hard. That's why they are coached to have good actions and follow through. Bolded part, that is the very reason he sjoul pick a ball with overspin or side spin as his stock ball. Currently his stock ball is the carrom ball.

The problem lies in the fact that he is not yet matured enough to use different angles of the crease, and bowl selected deliveries according to the conditions. Maybe working with someone who understands his bowling might help in that case. And yes, there is no alternative to experience, especially for a spinner.

Sounds great, but this idiot thinks he has no problems with his bowling, and he's plain unlucky not to get wickets. That crap attitude prevents coaching.

 

[karan316]

The general agreement is that a spinner have to spin their stock balls hard. That's why they are coached to have good actions and follow through. Bolded part, that is the very reason he sjoul pick a ball with overspin or side spin as his stock ball. Currently his stock ball is the carrom ball.

I agree, he should select a particular delivery which he can bowl well repeatedly as his stock ball, his leg cutter is pretty good, gets more turn than the carrom ball and has side spin on it, its something which he should be using a lot more.

Have a look at this video, the wicket isn't a turner, just a normal ODI wicket,

at 3 mins 38 secs Mendis bowls a leg cutter, also see the replay, he imparts side spin and the amount of revs are better as compared to the carrom ball.

And he is not using the carrom ball as a stock ball except for in T20s, normally he tries to bowl too many variations in one over hence it gets difficult to control the line and length.

Sounds great, but this idiot thinks he has no problems with his bowling, and he's plain unlucky not to get wickets. That crap attitude prevents coaching.

What? did he himself say this? Because I have always viewed him as a guy who wants to work hard and improve.