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Do domestic structures define the test rankings?

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Because he's South African LOL :ph34r:

Pietersen's batting was hugely developed in England, IIRC he was a decent offie before he made the move.

County cricket produced Hobbs, Compton, Woolley, Gower, Trescothick et al. Hardly the exclusive domain of grinders and mediocre blockers.
 

Daemon

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If foreign players go to county cricket and become better, then I guess England just has very limited natural talent :ph34r:
 

Cabinet96

Global Moderator
Yeah, Pietersen's batting was pretty much made what it is now in County Cricket. First Class Cricket might not make a world beater, but a strong system is something you can relay on and pick players from, with the confidence that their FC success will transfer to tests. Selections such as Jonathan Trott's wouldn't be made if it weren't for a strong First Class structure in England where Trott's success was an indication that he would be a good test batsmen.

On the other hand, I'm starting to have some serious doubts about the standard of Indian domestic cricket, considering the wealth of young batsmen averaging around 60 in FC cricket not getting goes in a struggling test team because of ODI failures, even when their domestic records indicate they're a better long format batsmen than short format one.
 

Viscount Tom

International Debutant
Well the pitches in India's domestic circuit are mostly roads and when they're not a lot of the batsmen just fail utterly.
 

morgieb

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County Cricket is good for honing players talents and making them realise their potential, but for whatever reason the English junior system hasn't produced any outstanding talents.
 

morgieb

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Define "outstanding talent"!
Players like Sachin, Kallis, Steyn, etc. Anderson I guess goes close, but he's only really been "that" good over the past couple of years. KP doesn't count as he learned his cricket in South Africa.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Players like Sachin, Kallis, Steyn, etc. Anderson I guess goes close, but he's only really been "that" good over the past couple of years. KP doesn't count as he learned his cricket in South Africa.
Anderson's career average is a reflection of him being mucked around by England for 4 years.

Come the end of his career you'll easily be able to cherry pick 250 wickets at an average of 25ish.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Players like Sachin, Kallis, Steyn, etc. Anderson I guess goes close, but he's only really been "that" good over the past couple of years. KP doesn't count as he learned his cricket in South Africa.
That's a high bar you're setting. Surely Alastair Cook coming through the junior system counts for something?
 

morgieb

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That's a high bar you're setting. Surely Alastair Cook coming through the junior system counts for something?
Ignored Cook as a post said that England do not produce "exciting" talents, which was kinda similar to my point (although I did include Kallis...lol).

Still, Cook and Anderson have been only two of England-produced gun talents in recent years. There's probably more, but it does kinda pale in comparison to other countries.
 

Neil Pickup

Cricket Web Moderator
Ignored Cook as a post said that England do not produce "exciting" talents, which was kinda similar to my point (although I did include Kallis...lol).

Still, Cook and Anderson have been only two of England-produced gun talents in recent years. There's probably more, but it does kinda pale in comparison to other countries.
I wish we were producing more players like Umar Akmal too.

Seriously, what point are you trying to argue?
 

morgieb

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My original point was that County Cricket was more good for refining talents rather than producing them - plenty of players have become better cricketers for experience there (Hussey, Swann and Pietersen three obvious examples). My point descended into bull**** though as I forgot about the fact that England has produced plenty of quality players, particularly recently.
 

morgieb

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He didn't make his test debut until he was 29 though.....that was part of my original point.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
I'm guessing morgie's talking about a lack of "exciting" young talent, forgetting that the likes of KP, Anderson, Bell and Cook were all at one point exciting talents in their early 20s. If we don't appear to have produced many exciting batsmen in particular over the last 5-6 years then it's because the generation that debuted between 2004 and 2006 have been so bloody good.
 

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