new zealand's most effective pace bowling

[lockton2skipper]

combination of the last 35 years, because thats how long i have been following them, saw the 1978 prudential cup game at scarborough.
hadlee cairns and chatfield, was a very effective combination one world class bowler plus two workhorses of very different styles. chats slightly quicker mr line and legnth seamer where as cairns was a huge in swing bowler. plus they had stephen boock as a qualty spinner.
another combination that springs to mind is cairns doull and nash another mini succesfull era, also bond martin and franklin won a few.
then morrison sua and watson was promising.
hopefully boult southee bracewell and milne can add to this.

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by lockton2skipper

combination of the last 35 years, because thats how long i have been following them, saw the 1978 prudential cup game at scarborough.
hadlee cairns and chatfield, was a very effective combination one world class bowler plus two workhorses of very different styles. chats slightly quicker mr line and legnth seamer where as cairns was a huge in swing bowler. plus they had stephen boock as a qualty spinner.
another combination that springs to mind is cairns doull and nash another mini succesfull era, also bond martin and franklin won a few.
then morrison sua and watson was promising.
hopefully boult southee bracewell and milne can add to this.

I think Bracewell is at a crossroads. He has fallen down the pecking order below Boult and if he is not careful could lose his spot to Gillespie. I am glad they sent him back to FC for some conditioning. He needs some fine tuning. Loved him against SA by the way he looked terrific. Good late swing.

Hope he loses his habit of bowling no balls.

[wellAlbidarned]

One thing that's struck me about Bracewell is his front leg bending pretty badly in his delivery stride. Dunno exactly how beneficial it would be, but I hope his coaches pick up on it. Could probably gain 5kph for not much effort, though I'm just a **** with a computer talking out of my arse so there might be more to it.

[Chubb]

DUFFMAN will put it all right in 4 years.

At training the other night a couple of guys were talking about him, one said he could struggle to get into the side with Milne, Bracewell, Southee etc. around. I think he could be better than any of them - a Kiwi Stuart Broad. And Broad, for all his faults and the fact a lot of people don't like him, is a very good bowler.

[Hurricane]

Yep good point Albi

In terms of best bowling combination it has to be the Hadlee combination just because of King Dick. The current combination needs to win a couple of tests before it over takes Bond, OBrien, and Martin to be the best bowling attack of recent times.

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by Chubb

DUFFMAN will put it all right in 4 years.

At training the other night a couple of guys were talking about him, one said he could struggle to get into the side with Milne, Bracewell, Southee etc. around. I think he could be better than any of them - a Kiwi Stuart Broad. And Broad, for all his faults and the fact a lot of people don't like him, is a very good bowler.

I am not that happy with Duffy's action. If he goes on to be player of the U20 world tournament then I will obviously retract this misgiving.

[Blain]

Duffy is good for an 18yo, think he is a while away from taking consistant wickets imo. Once he gets some muscle and Bond works with his action a bit to get more pace he will be ok.

We have a really promising group of Fast bowlers in their early 20s atm (Southee, Bracewell, Boult, Small, Milne, Wheeler, Henry), not many spinners though. Hopefully they can stay un injured and we can build some depth for once.

[Flem274*]

Bracewell and Boult are the most complete, with Southee and Henry fast catching them.

Small and Mathieson could be the best though.

Most of the younger bowlers outside the team with the exception of Henry are quite raw development wise though.

Haven't really seen enough of Wheeler to comment.

And screw spinners. We don't produce spinners. Maybe the new generation will produce someone, but for now it should be four quicks and Vettori/Franklin can fight to the death for 5th bowler duties.

[Bahnz]

Originally Posted by Flem274*

Bracewell and Boult are the most complete, with Southee and Henry fast catching them.

Small and Mathieson could be the best though.

Most of the younger bowlers outside the team with the exception of Henry are quite raw development wise though.

Haven't really seen enough of Wheeler to comment.

And screw spinners. We don't produce spinners. Maybe the new generation will produce someone, but for now it should be four quicks and Vettori/Franklin can fight to the death for 5th bowler duties.

Small needs to actually stay on the field first. Starting to get that really annoying Sherlock vibe about him. Fingers-crossed that I'm wrong, because I fully agree that he could be better than any of the current Black Caps.

As for spinners, just get on your knees and pray that Sodhi develops into a competent bowler, as there's certainly nobody else showing any real promise.

Anyway, actually getting back on topic, the best attack in terms of effectiveness was obviously Hadlee and co. But I reckon Cairns, Nash, Doull and O'Connor were probably all better bowlers than Lance and Chatfield (or Franklin and Martin for that matter), so that era is probably the best in terms of depth of resources.

[Flametree]

Originally Posted by Bahnz

Anyway, actually getting back on topic, the best attack in terms of effectiveness was obviously Hadlee and co. But I reckon Cairns, Nash, Doull and O'Connor were probably all better bowlers than Lance and Chatfield (or Franklin and Martin for that matter), so that era is probably the best in terms of depth of resources.

For a time around 1997-2000 the stocks looked good on paper, but they were all so injury-prone we would usually only get two of that four onto the field at any one time.... Plus the selectors were keen to carry on a lengthy experiment with with Geoff Allott.

[straw man]

Originally Posted by Hurricane

I think Bracewell is at a crossroads. He has fallen down the pecking order below Boult and if he is not careful could lose his spot to Gillespie. I am glad they sent him back to FC for some conditioning. He needs some fine tuning. Loved him against SA by the way he looked terrific. Good late swing.

Hope he loses his habit of bowling no balls.

Yes this will be a big season for Bracewell. He doesn't need to do anything spectacular with the ball - just keep rocking up to the crease with that easy action and bowl an accurate mixture of 130-135 km/h outswingers and straight balls that hit the seam. Maybe get a little reverse with the old ball. That's all we need from a third seamer.

Though after the good start to his career I can see him not being satisfied with just being accurate and patient - suspect he may go looking for wickets more, want to be more of a strike bowler, bowl faster and as a result be less accurate. Don't want to see this.

[wellAlbidarned]

Think he gave that dream up in his first 10 overs against Australia. Recall everyone talking up his "extra pace" and how he was going to try "rough 'em up a bit". Got pulled into oblivion, decided to start pitching it up and the rest is history.

[straw man]

I like Small's bowling from what I've seen but cannot for the life of me see how people could say he has the most potential of them all. Looks like a Bracewell-like third seamer imo (and there's nothing wrong with that).

Of all the current NZ seamers and possible future seamers, it's still Southee who has the most potential to me. That's purely down to his build and action - if he's fit and strong he should be able to bowl 135-140 consistently without any great strain and as long as his release is right he will get swing, seam and bounce. His success is therefore all dependent on what goes on his brain - and I'm not making any pronouncements on how well I expect that to go. Contrast a bit to someone like Boult who, early signs would suggest is a smarter bowler, but needs to strain a lot more to get the ball through quickly and generate bounce. Have already seen a few times how he loses his rhythm when tired and then bowls leg-stump half-volleys.

Seeing Milne in SL makes me more positive about him returning to FC and picking up some wickets, but needs a year or two of that. The rest (Henry, Wheeler, Duffy etc) just need to stay fit and play more cricket.

[straw man]

Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned

Think he gave that dream up in his first 10 overs against Australia. Recall everyone talking up his "extra pace" and how he was going to try "rough 'em up a bit". Got pulled into oblivion, decided to start pitching it up and the rest is history.

Haha yeah I remember that. He did have that faster, bouncier action at one point in domestix and maybe thought he could do that. It was woefully inaccurate though. Has fallen into the accurate third-seamer role now and hope he's content to do that.

[Flem274*]

I don't want to see roles banged down these guys throats tbh. Everyone is there to be a superstar who can smash opposition single handedly, and Bracewell and Southee have already proven they can do that. Boult has the goods to do it as well.

I'll be a sad phlegm if we turn someone into Brent Arnel because we want to make a classical workhorse third seamer.