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ATG team from each nation- consensus thread- Aus, Eng, WI

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
If a specialist Captain had to be selected as mandatory in English team, I would go for Jardine although Brearley was a great scholar and Captain but Jardine was not behind Brearley from tactical point of view as well and additionally he brings in batting depth. The thing with specialist Captain selection means the team has to be constructed around the Captain and Captain's name should be first on the list. So points to be noted that if anyone constructs a team with specialist Captain, then that Captain will need close to those sets of players that he had success with; therefore, if Jardine is selected, the team will definitely need likes of Larwood, Verity, Ames and if Brearley is selected, that team will need likes of Botham, Bob Willis. My point is if specialist Captain is selected in an ATG XI, different sorts of combination of players are required and if not, we can't shoehorn a specialist Captain into a side of players that the Captain is not familiar with at all.
This is a very good point - I wouldn't fancy the chances of Trueman and Jardine getting on for example, whereas we know that he and Larwood had enormous respect for each other
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
The specialist captain theory is a load of **** if you're leaving our guys of the calibre of Barrington, Hutton, Ranji or Woolley to accommodate Brearley in the top 6.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
The specialist captain theory is a load of **** if you're leaving our guys of the calibre of Barrington, Hutton, Ranji or Woolley to accommodate Brearley in the top 6.
+1

Quite stupid concept in general really.
 

Jager

International Debutant
Not a stupid concept at all - good captaincy is vital to the success of a side.

Most people think here that making one of these world XI's would be an instant success with all these stars but I very much doubt it, we've seen before how compilations of players for 'world representative' sides function... poorly, no motivation etc.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Not a stupid concept at all - good captaincy is vital to the success of a side.

Most people think here that making one of these world XI's would be an instant success with all these stars but I very much doubt it, we've seen before how compilations of players for 'world representative' sides function... poorly, no motivation etc.
Nearly every player in an ATG side would be an alpha male of the highest order. I highly doubt they'd tolerate having someone as mediocre as Brearley in the side solely on the basis of his leadership. In my experience, they'd demand someone who can lead from the front, and back it up with skill. Someone like Viv or Imran, or for England someone like Hutton or Hammond. Brearley might be good with people, but he'd be very disrespected by the guys he is leading on the basis of his cricketing ability.

Let's face it, if the Australian top six is-

Morris (avg 46) - Simpson (46) - Bradman (99) - G.Chappell (54) - Ponting (53) - Border (50)

an England team is going to be at a MASSIVE disadvantage having Brearley (batting average 22) in its top six.


All of Lillee, McGrath, Warne and O'Reilly would be champing at the bit to get the ball as soon as England were 4 for. Easiest wicket ever in an ATG battle!
 

watson

Banned
Not a stupid concept at all - good captaincy is vital to the success of a side.

Most people think here that making one of these world XI's would be an instant success with all these stars but I very much doubt it, we've seen before how compilations of players for 'world representative' sides function... poorly, no motivation etc.
Most people would be happy with a small loss in batting skill if it they gained a good captain.

However, with respect to Brearley, or even Jardine, the team is asked to endure a significant loss in batting skill for a small gain in captaincy skill relative to other ATG captains available.

Therefore, it seems silly to do without Hutton or May (for example), who are perfectly good captains, in order to make room for Brearley or Jardine who pale in comparison as batsman.
 
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kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
Lloyd, Viv and Ponting were seen by some as over rated captains but their teams seemed to have done fairly well. Great players, especially match winning bowlers supported by clutch batsmen, win matches. Having Marshall, Holding, Mcgrath and Warne in your attack makes a captain look pretty good. Hutton was a good innovative captain who broke down barriers, good enough for me. In my opinion having a great cordon seems to have a greater impact on great teams than supposedly great captains, if you have great bowlers might as well have someone to take the catches.
btw how great were the teams of Jaradine and Brearley compared to the ones of Lloyd, Richards, Bradman and Ponting.
 

Jager

International Debutant
Love your cordon thinking, I support that. Don't think I have ever campaigned for Brearley to lead a World XI though so not sure why people are saying it. I liked seeing Brearley finally get some recognition in these sides but personally I'd be taking Jardine in an English XI as a the skipper.

Miller is my World XI captain, Imran would be my second choice.

I read a damning article about Viv's captaincy actually, it alluded to his obsession with bowling bumpers at the opposition and his 'racial hostility' towards them, something that really turned me off him as a bloke - cheating on his wife didn't help either - and I really do care about the spirit of the game more than brutally destroying my opposition
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
No, Viv was not obsessed with bowling bumpers and he wasn't racially hostile either. What he was, was a racially proud man didn't put up with the crap from other coutries, especially Australia.
Also if you are concered for the spirit of the game, then how can you choose Jaradine who took eveeything Viv did two steps further and was way beyond fair play
. Not to mention, cause a harm to the relations of two countries and end Larwoods career. Ah romantacism.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
I think Viv's aggression was an appropriate and timely reaction against a few century's worth of worldwide racial oppression.

I don't think he was necessarily "racially hostile", just incredibly proud of his heritage.


Still my fave clip from a cricket video...

A great clip from fire in babylon - YouTube
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
Btw Hadlee, who made those accusations towards Viv, didn't have anything good to say about Imran either. Also Miller was too care free to be a good captain.
 

L Trumper

State Regular
Love your cordon thinking, I support that. Don't think I have ever campaigned for Brearley to lead a World XI though so not sure why people are saying it. I liked seeing Brearley finally get some recognition in these sides but personally I'd be taking Jardine in an English XI as a the skipper.

Miller is my World XI captain, Imran would be my second choice.

I read a damning article about Viv's captaincy actually, it alluded to his obsession with bowling bumpers at the opposition and his 'racial hostility' towards them, something that really turned me off him as a bloke - cheating on his wife didn't help either - and I really do care about the spirit of the game more than brutally destroying my opposition
Bit of an oxymoron.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
Yes it was about bowling bumpers at the body with a now outlawed packed on side field with the intent of getting the batsmen to offer a catch to the onside or to hurt the batsman.
what am I missing?
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yes it was about bowling bumpers at the body with a now outlawed packed on side field with the intent of getting the batsmen to offer a catch to the onside or to hurt the batsman.
what am I missing?

I think we're talking about Fast Leg theory, rather than leg theory, to be horribly pedantic.
 

Eds

International Debutant
Yes it was about bowling bumpers at the body with a now outlawed packed on side field with the intent of getting the batsmen to offer a catch to the onside or to hurt the batsman.
what am I missing?
It wasn't a contradiction, is what I was saying.
 

Spooony

Banned
Tell that potent bowlers of the past they can only bowl 2 bouncers a over. Big difference when a batsman face pace where 6 balls can be directed at his body with protection thinner than a always Ultra pad. That is why they racked up those wickets. Todays world tail enders would stand up to them.

Then I wonder if Bradman had all the batting equipment today and Tendulkar or any modern bat when the sweetspot is almost the whole bat, and you tell him only 2 bouncers alowed? He will bat whole year in fact I bet right now he slapping Jesus around upstairs and thinking to himself how he was born 60 to 70 years too early.

Those express pace of yester year relied on beating reflexes and threat of injury. Today most of it is taken away what you sit with. Larwood bowling a 150k thunderbolt going at 300k's to the boundary. The faster the bowl the further they travel
 

Eds

International Debutant
Tell that potent bowlers of the past they can only bowl 2 bouncers a over. Big difference when a batsman face pace where 6 balls can be directed at his body with protection thinner than a always Ultra pad. That is why they racked up those wickets. Todays world tail enders would stand up to them.

Then I wonder if Bradman had all the batting equipment today and Tendulkar or any modern bat when the sweetspot is almost the whole bat, and you tell him only 2 bouncers alowed? He will bat whole year in fact I bet right now he slapping Jesus around upstairs and thinking to himself how he was born 60 to 70 years too early.

Those express pace of yester year relied on beating reflexes and threat of injury. Today most of it is taken away what you sit with. Larwood bowling a 150k thunderbolt going at 300k's to the boundary. The faster the bowl the further they travel
Not sure I understand what your point is here.
 

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