The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[vic_orthdox]

Thought that in one of SJS' posts about Lindwall, the man himself said that any similarity was coincidental.

 

[fredfertang]

Thought that in one of SJS' posts about Lindwall, the man himself said that any similarity was coincidental.

In his autobiography Lindwall said that the first Test he ever saw was the first of the Bodyline series, so he would have been 11 - he did say that Larwood made a great impression on him, but added that despite acknowledging the many similarities in their actions, that he never consciously set out to copy him. I've read the story that he copied Larwood a number of times, so either someone has wrongly jumped to that conclusion and that view has been repeated down the years, or perhaps in 1954 Lindwall didn't fancy acknowledging that he had deliberately modelled his action on a Pom

 

[kyear2]

Tangy with the goods I'd estimate a 20 average or thereabouts.

For me the best team would be...

Jager's XI

1. Jack Hobbs
2. Herbert Sutcliffe
3. Barry Richards
4. Don Bradman
5. Keith Miller*
6. Garfield Sobers
7. Mike Procter
8. Don Tallon †
9. Harold Larwood
10. -
11. -

The last spots can be any of 10. Verity/Warne/O'Reilly or 11. Marshall/Donald/Ambrose/Davidson/Waqar. Just can't choose!

Can I go on record and say that this the weakest world 11 that I have ever seen, but that I really like the Procter pick and one that I am considering. Also one of the reasons.that I include Tendulkar and Imran is that a world 11 should be representative and the subcontinent should have a presence, not neccecerily both, but a presence.
btw Miller is the most over rated pure batsman on CW, we can use the back injury, but Hutto, Lillee and Sobers all also has serious injuries and that fact that he bowled should matter as so did Sobers and Kallis and Sobers probably bowled as much overs as him, will check though.

 

[smash84]

Can I go on record and say that this the weakest world 11 that I have ever seen, but that I really like the Procter pick and one that I am considering. Also one of the reasons.that I include Tendulkar and Imran is that a world 11 should be representative and the subcontinent should have a presence, not neccecerily both, but a presence.
btw Miller is the most over rated pure batsman on CW, we can use the back injury, but Hutto, Lillee and Sobers all also has serious injuries and that fact that he bowled should matter as so did Sobers and Kallis and Sobers probably bowled as much overs as him, will check though.

Dude, you just sent daggers through jager's heart

 

[kyear2]

Don't you think he is over rated? Jager over romaticises a lot of players, ie Larwood and Miller.

 

[smash84]

He was a very good player no doubt about it. I don't think too many ppl over rate him. In fact overall he might be under rated given how many ppl don't even take him into consideration when coming up with all time lists. He is over rated by Jager though who seems to be omni-present in all the ATG threads of late

 

[NUFAN]

I always think that Miller and Imran Smali Khan are battling each other for that all rounder position in the all time world XI so I'm always shocked to see Miller batting as high as 5 particularly with the brilliant Sobers at 6.

Barry Richards at 3 ahead of Bradman baffles me more though.

I've not posted an XI for a while but I've got 9 spots locked in.
They are: Hutton, Hobbs, Bradman, Richards, Sobers, Gilchrist, Imran, Warne, Marshall.

 

[kyear2]

He was a very good player no doubt about it. I don't think too many ppl over rate him. In fact overall he might be under rated given how many ppl don't even take him into consideration when coming up with all time lists. He is over rated by Jager though who seems to be omni-present in all the ATG threads of late

Didn't say that Miller the player is over rated, said Miller the batsman is over rated, have no prob with him in the first team, but not as a fifth bolwer batting at 5, weakens the batting and doesn't bowl that much.

 

[smash84]

I always think that Miller and Imran Smali Khan are battling each other for that all rounder position in the all time world XI so I'm always shocked to see Miller batting as high as 5 particularly with the brilliant Sobers at 6.

nice.....

but yeah, agree with the above.

 

[smash84]

Didn't say that Miller the player is over rated, said Miller the batsman is over rated, have no prob with him in the first team, but not as a fifth bolwer batting at 5, weakens the batting and doesn't bowl that much.

Definitely over rated for batting at number 5. He could bat at 7 in an ATXI I think.

 

[Dan]

Definitely over rated for batting at number 5. He could bat at 7 in an ATXI I think.

You could put him at 6, IMO. It fairness, Jager has his own reasons for refusing Miller to bat at 6.

 

[Mike5181]

I always think that Miller and Imran Smali Khan are battling each other for that all rounder position in the all time world XI so I'm always shocked to see Miller batting as high as 5 particularly with the brilliant Sobers at 6.

Barry Richards at 3 ahead of Bradman baffles me more though.

I've not posted an XI for a while but I've got 9 spots locked in.
They are: Hutton, Hobbs, Bradman, Richards, Sobers, Gilchrist, Imran, Warne, Marshall.

I'd probably go for something like this:

1. Len Hutton
2. Jack Hobbs
3. Donald Bradman
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Viv Richards
6. Garry Sobers
7. Adam Gilchrist†
8. Imran Khan
9. Richard Hadlee
10. Shane Warne
11. Malcolm Marshall

Could swap Hadlee out for someone like McGrath/Akram.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

IMO the question is how much better a bowler Lindwall is than Miller. If the difference is negligible, then it wouldn't be entirely implausible to bat Miller at 8 and give him free reign to bat with reckless abandon.

I quite like this scenario because it gives a lot of freedom to make a terrifyingly deep batting line-up with most of the middle-order ATGs getting a go (and compiled with the Windies four-prong in mind):

1. Ponsford
2. Hayden
3. Bradman
4. Chappell
5. Border
6. Waugh
7. Gilchrist
8. Miller
9. Warne
10. Lillee
11. McGrath

Try and bowl that out. Go on.

 

[kyear2]

I always think that Miller and Imran Smali Khan are battling each other for that all rounder position in the all time world XI so I'm always shocked to see Miller batting as high as 5 particularly with the brilliant Sobers at 6.

Barry Richards at 3 ahead of Bradman baffles me more though.

I've not posted an XI for a while but I've got 9 spots locked in.
They are: Hutton, Hobbs, Bradman, Richards, Sobers, Gilchrist, Imran, Warne, Marshall.

Baffled by Richards at 3, and Larwood as first choice pacer.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

Baffled by Richards at 3, and Larwood as first choice pacer.

Personal LHC XI:

1. S. Gavaskar
2. B. Richards
3. D. Bradman
4. W. Hammond
5. G. Sobers
6. A. Gilchrist
7. Kapil Dev
8. Wasim Akram
9. S. Warne
10. D. Lillee
11. M. Muralitharan

 

[MrPrez]

For me it's:

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Tendulkar
Compton
Sobers
Gilchrist
Proctor
Warne
Marshall
Lillee/Larwood/some West Indian quick/some other bowler I'm not thinking of

 

[Camo999]

I'll have a go:

Camo999 All-time XI
Hobbs
Grace [6]
Bradman
Lara
Richards V
Sobers [5]
+Gilchrist
*Imran [3]
Warne [4]
Ambrose [1]
Barnes [2]

I’m a massive Lara fan so he squeezes in ahead of Tendulkar, Headley, Pollock etc

Stuff Hutton vs Sutcliffe, WG dominated the sport for decades. Not his fault test matches weren’t that regular during his peak.

 

[kyear2]

The batting line up for the All Time XI seems much easier to choose than the bowling attack.
The always consensus picks being Hutton, Hobbs, Bradman, Richards, Tendulkar and Sobers, with the occasional smattering of Headley, Hammond, Lara, Pollock, Gavaskar and Chappell.
The bowling attack seems to consistently have only two names in Warne and Marshall with a list of: Mcgrath, Lillee, Miller, lindwall, Ambrose, Holding, Akram, Imran, Procter, Hadlee, Trueman, Barnes, Muralitharan, Verity, O'Reilly, Laker fighing it out for the last two spots.
The Wicketkeeping spot realistically is between two men and selection depends if you want a wicket-keeperbatsman or the other way around, but realistically you loose little in either catergory with Gilchrist and Knott or even Les Ames if one were to strech the pool.

 

[Red]

My 1st XI
Sunil Gavaskar
Jack Hobbs
Don Bradman
Wally Hammond
Viv Richards (c)
Garry Sobers
Allan Knott
Shane Warne
Malcolm Marshall
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath

My 2nd XI
Len Hutton
Gordon Greenidge
George Headley
Sachin Tendulkar
Keith Miller
Brian Lara
Adam Gilchrist
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Curtly Ambrose
Bill O'Reilly

My 3rd XI
Arthur Morris
Herb Sutcliffe
Ricky Ponting
Frank Worrell
Victor Trumper
Allan Border
Farokh Engineer
Wasim Akram
Andy Roberts
Joel Garner
SF Barnes

 

[Red]

Each Test Playing Nation's Greatest Player

1. Jack Hobbs (Eng)
2.
3. Don Bradman (Aus)
4. Sachin Tendulkar (Ind)
5. Garry Sobers (WI)
6. Graeme Pollock (SA)
7.
8. Imran Khan (Pak)
9. Richard Hadlee (NZ)
10.
11. Muttiah Muralitharan (SL)

Perhaps Kapil over Sachin, and Pollock debatable, but I think the rest are pretty uncontentious.